Requesting help from EAGLE PCB users

Hello,

Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2 layer
boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this refers
to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the board?
But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads, holes
etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?

Here is a .jpg of my design; http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest.jpg

It's very simple in that it has a single 18pin DIL on the topside, an SMD
smoothing capacitor on the underside.  A 9pin D-type solders onto the side
of the board on the left.  Signal wires from a cable go through the holes
directly next to the DIL on the right.  The three large holes on the far
right take the main cable through the middle hole, with a cable tie nipping
the cable securely to the board.  Space is absolutely critical given it's
obvious small size.  I've copied this from the remaining boards I have here.

Here is the current .brd file if you would be willing to have a look;
http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/PeST.brd

I'd be extremely grateful for any assistance or pointers if I'm going wrong
as I've been dropped in the deep end since my working partner (who does the
electronics side) has started a regular paid job.  And yes, I'm a girlie,
and no I'm not an electronics engineer, I'm an embedded software developer.
The prices we were used to paying were about �80 for 100 or so boards, and I
was quoted �700 odd pounds by a company today who want to do a complete
redesign when I already have a product.  We used to regularly have prototype
runs from my partner's original company which has folded.

I have several other projects in the pipeline so it would be brilliant to
get these gerber files produced properly as soon as I can.

Thanks kindly,

Alison

"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message 
news:dvnda6$odo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hello,
>
> Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
> What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
> manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2 layer
> boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this 
> refers
> to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the 
> board?
> But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads, holes
> etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?

Eagle has a good doc on multilayer boards in their help file I believe. . 
Inner layers are usually Gnd & Power for a typical 4 layer board. If you 
don't have those layers in your design you will have to add them. In my 
designs they are layers 2 and 15.

ps.. also see the CAM OUT help files. There is a Gerber274x ( I think) job 
file already setup . Use that as a starting point. In the CAM output dialog 
you will be assigning your Eagle PCB layers to Gerber files. See how they 
did it in the Gerber274x job ffile that came with Eagle.


"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message 
news:dvnda6$odo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hello,
>
> Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
> What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
> manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2 layer
> boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this 
> refers
> to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the 
> board?
> But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads, holes
> etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?
>
> Here is a .jpg of my design; http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest.jpg
>
> It's very simple in that it has a single 18pin DIL on the topside, an SMD
> smoothing capacitor on the underside.  A 9pin D-type solders onto the side
> of the board on the left.  Signal wires from a cable go through the holes
> directly next to the DIL on the right.  The three large holes on the far
> right take the main cable through the middle hole, with a cable tie 
> nipping
> the cable securely to the board.  Space is absolutely critical given it's
> obvious small size.  I've copied this from the remaining boards I have 
> here.
>
> Here is the current .brd file if you would be willing to have a look;
> http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/PeST.brd
>
> I'd be extremely grateful for any assistance or pointers if I'm going 
> wrong
> as I've been dropped in the deep end since my working partner (who does 
> the
> electronics side) has started a regular paid job.  And yes, I'm a girlie,
> and no I'm not an electronics engineer, I'm an embedded software 
> developer.
> The prices we were used to paying were about &#4294967295;80 for 100 or so boards, and 
> I
> was quoted &#4294967295;700 odd pounds by a company today who want to do a complete
> redesign when I already have a product.  We used to regularly have 
> prototype
> runs from my partner's original company which has folded.
>
> I have several other projects in the pipeline so it would be brilliant to
> get these gerber files produced properly as soon as I can.
>
> Thanks kindly,
>
> Alison
>
> 

"nappy" <gospam@yourself.com> wrote in message
news:u2HTf.56440$H71.32312@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:dvnda6$odo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > Hello,
> >
> > Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
> > What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
> > manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2
layer
> > boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this
> > refers
> > to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the
> > board?
> > But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads,
holes
> > etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?
>
> Eagle has a good doc on multilayer boards in their help file I believe. .
> Inner layers are usually Gnd & Power for a typical 4 layer board. If you
> don't have those layers in your design you will have to add them. In my
> designs they are layers 2 and 15.
>
>

Ok, ta :)

Am still tempted to go for a 2 layer board to keep the costs down, and that
there's almost nothing on the board so nothing complex.  It does sound like
a good idea, quite impressed that it's now available to hobby prototypers.
What about VIAS? may I ask :)

But going to check out your other post about the help multilayer bit, on a
deadline here as been a bit stitched up.  But will check out the help files
a bit more, just always been used to learning from others interactively.  :)

techie_alison wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
> What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
> manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2 layer
> boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this refers
> to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the board?
> But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads, holes
> etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?
> 
> Here is a .jpg of my design; http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/pest.jpg
> 
> It's very simple in that it has a single 18pin DIL on the topside, an SMD
> smoothing capacitor on the underside.  A 9pin D-type solders onto the side
> of the board on the left.  Signal wires from a cable go through the holes
> directly next to the DIL on the right.  The three large holes on the far
> right take the main cable through the middle hole, with a cable tie nipping
> the cable securely to the board.  Space is absolutely critical given it's
> obvious small size.  I've copied this from the remaining boards I have here.
> 
> Here is the current .brd file if you would be willing to have a look;
> http://www.retro.dial.pipex.com/pest/PeST.brd
> 
> I'd be extremely grateful for any assistance or pointers if I'm going wrong
> as I've been dropped in the deep end since my working partner (who does the
> electronics side) has started a regular paid job.  And yes, I'm a girlie,
> and no I'm not an electronics engineer, I'm an embedded software developer.
> The prices we were used to paying were about �80 for 100 or so boards, and I
> was quoted �700 odd pounds by a company today who want to do a complete
> redesign when I already have a product.  We used to regularly have prototype
> runs from my partner's original company which has folded.
> 
> I have several other projects in the pipeline so it would be brilliant to
> get these gerber files produced properly as soon as I can.
> 
> Thanks kindly,
> 
> Alison
> 
> 
When a board manufacturer talks about "layers" they mean the number of 
layers of copper -- so a "2 layer" board is a single piece of insulator 
with copper on top & bottom, where a 4-layer board has four layers of 
copper, etc.

PC board software talks about silk, dimension, etc., layers.  These 
aren't 'real' layers in the sense of copper.  The only ones that really 
matter are the dimension layer, which the board house will want to use 
for cutting out the board, plus the top & bottom solder mask and the top 
  & possibly bottom silkscreen for component legends.  If you're doing a 
quick-turn board you can often save money and time by leaving out the 
silk and solder masks -- you get a board that's a bit harder to work 
with, but much less expensive and with a shorter turn around.

Hopefully someone will direct you to a good company in the UK.  Here in 
the US I use PCB Express: http://www.pcbexpress.com/.  While you don't 
want to have stuff shipped from Oregon, their site may help you figure 
out what questions to ask, and their guidelines are pretty good for just 
about any board house.  Somewhere on there they have a link to a free 
Gerber viewer that you can use as a last minute check to make sure that 
your output was sensible.

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google?  See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

techie_alison wrote:

> "nappy" <gospam@yourself.com> wrote in message
> news:u2HTf.56440$H71.32312@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> 
>>"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
>>news:dvnda6$odo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>Please may I request help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
>>>What's confusing me is if my design is suitable for submission to a PCB
>>>manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2
> 
> layer
> 
>>>boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this
>>>refers
>>>to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the
>>>board?
>>>But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads,
> 
> holes
> 
>>>etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?
>>
>>Eagle has a good doc on multilayer boards in their help file I believe. .
>>Inner layers are usually Gnd & Power for a typical 4 layer board. If you
>>don't have those layers in your design you will have to add them. In my
>>designs they are layers 2 and 15.
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Ok, ta :)
> 
> Am still tempted to go for a 2 layer board to keep the costs down, and that
> there's almost nothing on the board so nothing complex.  It does sound like
> a good idea, quite impressed that it's now available to hobby prototypers.
> What about VIAS? may I ask :)
> 
> But going to check out your other post about the help multilayer bit, on a
> deadline here as been a bit stitched up.  But will check out the help files
> a bit more, just always been used to learning from others interactively.  :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
You do _not_ need more than 2 layers!  Most board houses do plated 
through holes as a matter of course (do check, of course).  As long as 
the board house is plating through its holes and you are making your via 
holes big enough for the board house they will work..

-- 

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google?  See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

also.. freedfm.com is very handy for checking boards before submitting 
them.. to advanced circuits in Texas.

techie_alison wrote:
> manfacturer in Gerber format.  I see alot of manufacturers quoting 2 layer
> boards for 1 price, then 4 layer boards etc. etc.  I'm guessing this refers
> to multi layered boards with additional tracks sandwiched inside the board?
> But using Eagle it also refers to layers such as top, bottom, pads, holes
> etc. etc.  These wouldn't each count in PCB terms would they?

Look at the help for the CAM processor, it tells you what layers are
turned on for which output files.

For a 2-layer board, you will wind up with at least the following:

- drill CNC control file
- top copper
- bottom copper

If your design requires it, you might also have:

- top soldermask
- bottom soldermask

If your cosmetic sense demands it, you might also have:

- top silkscreen
- bottom silkscreen

If your design requires a SMD stencil, you might also wind up with

- top solder paste ("tCream and bCream")
- bottom solder paste

And so on. All those files are RS274-X Gerbers except for the CNC file,
which will usually be an Excellon file.

The "layers" in EAGLE are logical names referring to entities you might
want to turn off and on for visibility reasons; they have nothing
directly to do with the physical layers on the PCB.

I can send you a sample CAM job control file that outputs all the
correct files for a 2-layer PCB with silkscreen on one side and
soldermask on both sides, if you like. The procedure is then:

- RUN drillcfg.ulp to generate the drill list for your board. Save this
in a convenient directory
- Open CAM processor
- Load CAM job
- Edit paths for output files and make sure the drill page references
the drill list file you saved in the first step
- Click "Process Job"

>...help from an Eagle PCB designer users out there?
> Alison (techie_alison)

I think you got most of your points covered, but the place
where you find the highest concentration oF EAGLE knowledge is:

Inside-the-loop Cadsoft guys (Employees)[1]
news://news.cadsoft.de/eagle.support.eng

(Odd name--considering developments since Usenet started,
but I think you get the point)[2]
news://news.cadsoft.de/eagle.userchat.eng

Since you're using something that kinda resembles a newsreader,
you should try to access them.
.
.
There is also a group here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eaglecad/
.
.
[1] Others are free to recommend solutions as well.
[2] You get crossover from the factory guys here as well.

"techie_alison" <retro@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message 
news:dvnda6$odo$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> The prices we were used to paying were about &#4294967295;80 for 100 or so boards, and 
> I
> was quoted &#4294967295;700 odd pounds by a company today who want to do a complete
> redesign when I already have a product.

Your original prices sound about right for lowish volumes. Having taken a 
look at your jpg, I can't see anything obvious that would require a 
redesign.

I use a company near Bristol for PCB design and manufacture:
 http://www.smbdesigns.co.uk/

Maybe they can help. They have a clue.

Steve
http://www.fivetrees.com