I have seen plenty of ARM MCUs out there with impressive power consumption, but a very few offer SDRAM, and only one has PCI interface. The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all current offerings.
Lowest power 32-bit MCU with PCI, SDRAM?
Started by ●November 1, 2004
Reply by ●November 1, 20042004-11-01
"Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1ad1e8b9.0410312030.560d94b6@posting.google.com...> The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but > are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least > power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd > prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or > 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip > to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all current > offerings.Does it have to be ARM? Consider the PowerPC 405 or 440EP/GP series. -->Neil
Reply by ●November 1, 20042004-11-01
"Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet news:1ad1e8b9.0410312030.560d94b6@posting.google.com...> I have seen plenty of ARM MCUs out there with impressive power > consumption, but a very few offer SDRAM, and only one has PCI > interface. > > The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but > are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least > power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd > prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or > 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip > to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all currentofferings. Question is why you need PCI? PCI uses 50-60 pins and toggles most of those pins at 33-66 MHz. Does not sound like low power to me... Most people building ARM will build a chip which contains the things you normally put on PCI, and that will draw lower power. If you need high speed connection to something, the ARM options are typically USB or other serial interfaces. You can run 100 Mbit per second on an Ethernet interface, so if you have an FPGA, maybe you can connect directly to an MII? -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This is a personal view which may or may not be share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●November 1, 20042004-11-01
Have you seen the NetSilicon ARM's regards JG "Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1ad1e8b9.0410312030.560d94b6@posting.google.com...>I have seen plenty of ARM MCUs out there with impressive power > consumption, but a very few offer SDRAM, and only one has PCI > interface. > > The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but > are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least > power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd > prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or > 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip > to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all current > offerings.
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
> Question is why you need PCI? PCI uses 50-60 pins > and toggles most of those pins at 33-66 MHz. > Does not sound like low power to me...low-cost computer. I'd be adding modules on it, like a soundcard, various nics, and pcmcia options. High on the list is an embedded graphics chip. I'm not sure if I can interconnect all these through other busses, or afford their cores for FPGAs.> Most people building ARM will build a chip which contains > the things you normally put on PCI, and that will draw lower power.I know PCI gets power hungry, but using a complete x86 system like the STPC, Geode is more power demanding, and for reasons stated above, PCI is necessary. So the aim is any good MCU with low power ratings (nonx86), and PCI and SDRAM.
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
"Neil Bradley" <nb_no_spam@synthcom.com> wrote in message news:<10objgg3p5h1od7@corp.supernews.com>...> "Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1ad1e8b9.0410312030.560d94b6@posting.google.com... > > The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but > > are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least > > power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd > > prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or > > 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip > > to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all current > > offerings. > > Does it have to be ARM? Consider the PowerPC 405 or 440EP/GP series.Can be anything that runs Linux/NetBSD. Is the PPC lower on power than the Dragonball series? I'm aiming for less than 100mW. Possible?
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
"Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet news:1ad1e8b9.0411021039.2f6002e0@posting.google.com...> > Question is why you need PCI? PCI uses 50-60 pins > > and toggles most of those pins at 33-66 MHz. > > Does not sound like low power to me... > > low-cost computer. I'd be adding modules on it, like a soundcard, > various nics, and pcmcia options. High on the list is an embedded > graphics chip. I'm not sure if I can interconnect all these through > other busses, or afford their cores for FPGAs. > > > Most people building ARM will build a chip which contains > > the things you normally put on PCI, and that will draw lower power. > > I know PCI gets power hungry, but using a complete x86 system like the > STPC, Geode is more power demanding, and for reasons stated above, PCI > is necessary. So the aim is any good MCU with low power ratings > (nonx86), and PCI and SDRAM.Maybe you could be interested in the Comet Board developed at the Fachhochschule in Augsburg. It consists of a motherboard with connectors and a daugtherboard with CPU and memory. http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~hhoegl/proj/comet/index.html The CPU is the AT91RM9200 ARM920T running at approximately 200 MIPS. I addition there is an AVR for systems control, I/O expansion and CAN connectivity. There will be an FPSLIC (AVR + FPGA) connected to a 512 KB fast SRAM, and it should be possible to do a simple VGA style controller here.Another option is a video framegrabber. The memory will be 2 x dataflashes for a total of 16 MB flash. 32 or 64 MB SDRAM. In addition, there is an MMC/SD/Dataflashcard connector allowing you to boot from an external DFC. Prog Hoegl plans to run things like eCos and Linux 2.6 on the board. The AT91RM9200 has a vast number of I/Os. * 10/100 Mbit Ethernet. * USB Host + Client controller. Host controller can interfqace to things like USB Keyboard, mouse, USB memory under Linux * 5 x UART * 3 * Sync serial for I2S codecs * TWI for I2C connectivity * SPI * Flash Card interfaces (MMC/SD/Compactflash/Smartmedia) Don't think you need PCI ;-) ============ The daughter board will have Compactflash interface USB hub (additional 4-8 ports) and maybe I2S codec. This board will be open source, so anyone can use it. It is not ready yet, and a new revision of the schematics will be there soon. The SRAM will move from the CPU bus to the FPSLIC allowing a lot of nice functions to be implemented. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This is a personal view which may or may not be share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
"Ulf Samuelsson" <ulf@atmel.nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:2uqbo3F28fe67U1@uni-berlin.de...>{parts deleted}> Maybe you could be interested in the Comet Board developed at the > Fachhochschule in Augsburg. > It consists of a motherboard with connectors and a daugtherboard with CPU > and memory. > http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~hhoegl/proj/comet/index.html > > The CPU is the AT91RM9200 ARM920T running at approximately 200 MIPS. > I addition there is an AVR for systems control, I/O expansion and CAN > connectivity. > There will be an FPSLIC (AVR + FPGA) connected to a 512 KB fast SRAM, and > it > should > be possible to do a simple VGA style controller here.Another option is a > video framegrabber. > > The memory will be 2 x dataflashes for a total of 16 MB flash. 32 or 64 MB > SDRAM. > In addition, there is an MMC/SD/Dataflashcard connector allowing you to > boot > from an external DFC. > Prog Hoegl plans to run things like eCos and Linux 2.6 on the board. > > The AT91RM9200 has a vast number of I/Os. > * 10/100 Mbit Ethernet. > * USB Host + Client controller. > Host controller can interfqace to things like USB Keyboard, mouse, USB > memory under Linux > * 5 x UART > * 3 * Sync serial for I2S codecs > * TWI for I2C connectivity > * SPI > * Flash Card interfaces (MMC/SD/Compactflash/Smartmedia) > > Don't think you need PCI ;-) > > ============ > The daughter board will have Compactflash interface > USB hub (additional 4-8 ports) and maybe I2S codec. > > This board will be open source, so anyone can use it. It is not ready yet, > and a new revision of the > schematics will be there soon. The SRAM will move from the CPU bus to the > FPSLIC > allowing a lot of nice functions to be implemented.An the whole stuff will require at least 3..4W, right? I thought the OP was looking for something in the 100mW range. - Rene
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
"Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:1ad1e8b9.0411021040.3b1efcf@posting.google.com...> "Neil Bradley" <nb_no_spam@synthcom.com> wrote in message > news:<10objgg3p5h1od7@corp.supernews.com>... >> "Ghazan Haider" <ghazan.haider@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1ad1e8b9.0410312030.560d94b6@posting.google.com... >> > The motorola types, Dragonball and coldfire have these features, but >> > are an order of magnitude more expensive on power. What is the least >> > power consuming 32-bit MCU with glueless SDRAM and PCI interfaces? I'd >> > prefer architectures that can use the PalmOS 4.0 or higher (ARM9 or >> > 68k). I wonder if adding a PCI interface chip or SDRAM interface chip >> > to an ARM9 or even an ARM7 will take lower power than all current >> > offerings. >> >> Does it have to be ARM? Consider the PowerPC 405 or 440EP/GP series. > > Can be anything that runs Linux/NetBSD. Is the PPC lower on power than > the Dragonball series? I'm aiming for less than 100mW. Possible?An MPC870 @66MHz with 2 SDRAMs and some peripherals will require approx. 2..3Watts. This PPC core has no PCI interface. 100mW sounds not possible for what you plan to do. If your application is idle most of the time (say 99%) you can however look for a CPU with power- saving sleep modes. This can reduce power over time significantly. Yours - Rene
Reply by ●November 2, 20042004-11-02
"Rene" <spam@see5.ch> skrev i meddelandet news:4187ffba$0$28026$5402220f@news.sunrise.ch...> "Ulf Samuelsson" <ulf@atmel.nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:2uqbo3F28fe67U1@uni-berlin.de... > > > {parts deleted} > > > Maybe you could be interested in the Comet Board developed at the > > Fachhochschule in Augsburg. > > It consists of a motherboard with connectors and a daugtherboard withCPU> > and memory. > > http://www.fh-augsburg.de/~hhoegl/proj/comet/index.html > >...> > An the whole stuff will require at least 3..4W, right? I thought the OPwas> looking > for something in the 100mW range. >I think that the CPU uses about 60 mW (VccCORE) at 180 MHz but you can run this at a much lower speed if you want to so, you may be able to run it close to 10 mW. Alternatively run at high speed, and then stop clock. The AVR can handle events meanwhile at low power. The CPU can turn off peripherals selectively, so anything you dont need only draws leakage... The SPI dataflash is not on the same bus as the SDRAM, so only the capacitance of the SDRAM (and the FPSLIC) is visible to the CPU. Most other CPUs put the Flash on the same bus as the SDRAM which increases the capacitance a lot, and thus also the power. The dataflash can be powered down after U-boot has booted Linux. If you are really out after low power, you can run the SDRAM at 1.8V while the rest of the I/O run at 3.3V. The Bus has its own I/O. The bus runs at 60 Mhz. The Ethernet is going to be a Power Hog, due to some problem in the implementation. IIRC, th Ethernet does not power down unless the 50 MHz clock disappears, which is doesnt. I am pretty sure that an External PCI Ethernet is going to use a lot more anyway. For really low power it is best not used. The AVR should use maybe 10 mW at 3.3V if you run it at slow speed. The CPLD draws 40 mA @ 3V - terrible, but only when the SPI/Dataflash is used. If not, it powers down automatically to 5 uA. Next year, bettewr parts will reduce to < 20 mW. The SPI speed will affect power consutmpion and if slower troughput is OK, then lower power results. FPSLIC will use minimum 100 uA leakage, but the power consumption of this will of course be depending on what is inside the FPGA. No clue what the RS-232, CAN drivers or so will draw. As long as you run USB only internally, you do not have to provide 100/500 mA. Only what the other end needs. You make your own judgement if this results in 3 Watts or if it is closer to 100 mW -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com This is a personal view which may or may not be share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB
