FPGA + Microcontroller - HELP

Hi all,
What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
following reqiurement:
1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
the rest for IO and state machine,  input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Loc

LOC wrote:

> Hi all,
> What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> following reqiurement:
> 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
> 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> the rest for IO and state machine,  input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
> 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
> Any advice will be appreciated.

There is no Microcontroller plus FPGA, except you mean a
microcontroller inside an FPGA. Yes, they do exist.
 From 100k gates up.
EG the Altera Cyclone family.

Rene
-- 
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

In article <b66e585a.0410180619.56efd4d7@posting.google.com>,
LOC <loc.mai@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
>Hi all,
>What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
>following reqiurement:
>1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
>FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
>2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
>the rest for IO and state machine,  input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
>3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
>Any advice will be appreciated.
>Loc

Don't know much about them, but Atmel has a "FPSLIC" device which
has both.  I suspect that like most FPGAs, there aren't any JK F/Fs.
However you can synthesize them with D's and logic.  USB?  Probably
not native, but surely with all that horsepower you can perform the
necessary logic; all you need is some buffering outside -- don't think
you'll escape that.

HTH --
	-frank
-- 

LOC wrote:
> Hi all,
> What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> following reqiurement:
> 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
> 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> the rest for IO and state machine,  input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
> 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
> Any advice will be appreciated.
> Loc
AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
USB to RS232 => FTDI chip

Kind regards,
Laurent
www.amontec.com

LOC wrote:
> Hi all,
> What is a device consisting of FPGA and microntroller suitable to
> following reqiurement:
> 1. my PCB board size is 2.5"x2.5" - small (so I need a chip which has
> FPGA and Microcontroller ? )
> 2. FPGA portion has minimum 28 JK FlipFlops, 28 shift registers, and
> the rest for IO and state machine,  input clock 100 Mhz minimum.
> 3. microcontroller size has 2 serial ports, USB.
> Any advice will be appreciated.
> Loc

  This is quite a small logic resource.
Small uC + FPGA have been market failures, because they
could not match enough users requirements.

  More flexible is to use a slightly larger FPGA, and a Soft-CPU
( which scales, and follows process), or to look at

ST  STR711 family   : USB+Ports+FLASH+SomeConfigLOGIC, ARM core

ST  uPSD33xx family : USB+Ports+FLASH+SomeConfigLOGIC, Turbo51
or do a Two-package Solution (Which a FPGA+Loader is anyway)

SiLabs              : USB+Ports+FLASH+Debug, small packages
plus a Small package CPLDs 64-128MC from Altera/Atmel/Xilinx/Lattice
-jg

Amontec, Larry wrote:
> LOC wrote:

> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip

Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)

I'm also interested in dev. boards with ARM processor and FPGA (low cost 
and small size).

I know just one: http://www.trenz-electronic.de/prod/proden17.htm

I'd like to know what other can offer, but I haven't found any.

Oh, BTW NEC has SystemOnChip Lite 
http://www.ee.nec.de/products/asic/4_system_on_chip/0_soc_lite/development_board.html
But it cost too much (about 5000$ just for the board).

BR,
Slawc

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:18:46 +0200, slawc <slawc@emajl.si> wrote:

>Amontec, Larry wrote:
>> LOC wrote:
>
>> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
>> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
>
>Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)

Devices are fairly cheap (<$10) but devtools are a couple of $K+

slawc wrote:
> Amontec, Larry wrote:
> 
>> LOC wrote:
> 
> 
>> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
>> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
> 
> 
> Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)

Digikey show the smallest ones ~$20, and the largest ones ~$70.
(excludes the external loader prom)

  Note these devices have a hard-ceiling to their relatively small
code size of 8K/16K opcodes.
  Go past that, and it's drop-dead time....
-jg

> >Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
> 
> Devices are fairly cheap (<$10) but devtools are a couple of $K+

The AT94STK FPSLIC evaluation board comes with 6 months of tools
license.  This includes Leonardo VHDL synthesis, Mentor Modelsim
(supports co-simulation of FPGA logic and your system software),
and Atmels proprietary Figaro place & route software.  The AT94STK
retails for 300 or 500 Dollars, ask your distributor.

Someone wrote a comment about the code space limit.  This is true,
and its a really low limit for such a capable chip.  On the other
hand, code (and VHDL logic as well) sits in RAM and can be
reprogrammed at runtime.  How well that can work for you, depends
on the type of your project.  Stuff that is very modularized can
be swapped in/out easily.  Random code however can not (there is
no MMU).  

Neither exists an interface for external RAM.  You can certainly
add one in the FPGA area, and even faster than external SRAM on
normal AVRs.  However, compiler support for such solutions does
not exist unless you develop it yourself (GCC anyone?).  Otherwise
you have to live with copy-functions, that move data between
internal and external RAM (you can even implement DMA transfers
to reduce CPU load).

Marc

"Jim Granville" <no.spam@designtools.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet
news:ZTYcd.12321$mZ2.756293@news02.tsnz.net...
> slawc wrote:
> > Amontec, Larry wrote:
> >
> >> LOC wrote:
> >
> >
> >> AVR + FPGA => ATMEL "FPSLIC"
> >> USB to RS232 => FTDI chip
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know the price for FPSLICs? (largest ones)
>
> Digikey show the smallest ones ~$20, and the largest ones ~$70.
> (excludes the external loader prom)
>
>   Note these devices have a hard-ceiling to their relatively small
> code size of 8K/16K opcodes.
>   Go past that, and it's drop-dead time....
> -jg
>
Much lower cost in volume. < $5 possible.
There are people that work on Dynamic Link Libraries allowing the code to be
expanded.
The AT94KxxAX series will have an external databus, allowing you to easily
expand the data (but not the instruction)
It runs at 40 Mhz so the part could conceivable run an interpreter in the
internal RAM
and load code from the external memory.

-- 
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.