On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:26:30 -0700, the renowned linnix <me@linnix.info-for.us> wrote:>On Aug 9, 2:01 pm, DJ Delorie <d...@delorie.com> wrote: >> Chris Hills <ch...@phaedsys.org> writes: >> > Don't be silly... on 50-100K quantities he needs a proper disci. Not a >> > catalogue disti >> >> Well, duh. I don't have access to large quantity channels, so I can >> only point to digikey as a reference, and showing the digikey bulk >> cost at least shows that it's far cheaper than other chips, close to >> his price range, and something to investigate. It also provides a >> link to the datasheet, so he can see if the chip meets his technical >> needs. > >He should really check with the right distributor. Digikey might have >24K of them. When they are gone, he might not be able to get any >more. Would you design for 100K based on digikey alone?Oh give it a break. He just posted the Digikey price to indicate they are in the right ballpark and should be investigated further. T Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Cheap Microcontrollers
Started by ●August 8, 2007
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Zach_G wrote:> Hello there, I'm looking for a very cheap microcontroller indeed. Price > point is under 0.35 USD, quantities of 50-100k for first production runs. > Application is an RGB LED controller that accepts color information over > asynchronous serial communication. I crammed that in an attiny11 pretty > easily, but Atmel is discontinuing that model and replacing it with the > 2-3X as expensive attiny13! While it's nice that the attiny13 has alot of > fun peripherals, all I really need is a moderately fast (2-4MIPS) cpu core > and a handful of I/O. I've been trying to get some quotes from the major > asian companies, Winbond, Sonix, Elan, but getting a response from them is > like e-mailing with a fencepost. It's like these companies don't even want > to make a sale. So now I find myself turning to the online community for > advice and suggestions. > > Also, is it possible to get manufacturers to supply dies for chip on board > manufacturing? I bought some cool RGB fading leds that incorporate some > sort of controller into the 5mm LED package, and it would be cool if we > could do a similar thing. > > Thanks for any assistance you can provide? >In case that quantity is not a one time buy but a yearly volume you can also contact Arrow or TI directly and see if their MSP430F2001 fits the bill and could be negotiated down to $0.35. If you need a contact let me know. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Chris Hills wrote:> In article <xnd4xwvmb1.fsf@delorie.com>, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> writes > >> >> Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> writes: >> >>> Don't be silly... on 50-100K quantities he needs a proper disci. Not a >>> catalogue disti >> >> >> Well, duh. I don't have access to large quantity channels, so I can >> only point to digikey as a reference, and showing the digikey bulk >> cost at least shows that it's far cheaper than other chips, close to >> his price range, and something to investigate. > > > The Digi price gives no indication on pricing on 50-100K from a "proper" > disti.That's a strange claim - "no indication" ? - so you are saying it could be MORE than the digikey price ?!? What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also 'no indication of pricing' ? Freescale's press release says this : "Suggested resale pricing for 10,000-piece quantities starts at 43 cents (USD)." ( for this family DigiKey mentions 43.2c/2500 ) Microchip's press release mentions "49c/10K PIC10F200" Digikey might take issue with "proper" disti comment :) So, with the right care, you can see Digikey's price actually shows a very good correlation with the Chip Vendors press release claims. -jg
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Chris Hills wrote:>The Digi price gives no indication on pricing on 50-100K from a "proper" >disti. You can always do deals. I NEVER give the price of silicon. >There are so many variables.*No* indication? Seeing one part that costs $5.00 in-stock Qty=1K and another that costs $0.50 in-stock Qty=1K doesn't give you any indication at all about what the Qty=100K from whoever has the best price will be? To the OP: Elan/EMC, WinBond, and SunPlus are the lowest cost parts if you ever get into real high quantity production instead of a measly 100K parts. And yes, they all sell bare dies that you connect through wire bonding. -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Jim Granville wrote:> Chris Hills wrote: > >> In article <xnd4xwvmb1.fsf@delorie.com>, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> >> writes >> >>> >>> Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> writes: >>> >>>> Don't be silly... on 50-100K quantities he needs a proper disci. Not a >>>> catalogue disti >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, duh. I don't have access to large quantity channels, so I can >>> only point to digikey as a reference, and showing the digikey bulk >>> cost at least shows that it's far cheaper than other chips, close to >>> his price range, and something to investigate. >> >> >> >> The Digi price gives no indication on pricing on 50-100K from a >> "proper" disti. > > > That's a strange claim - "no indication" ? - so you are saying it could > be MORE than the digikey price ?!? > > What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also > 'no indication of pricing' ? >Often that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember TI before the MSP430F2xxx series where they touted "starting at $0.49"? Yet the cheapest MSP430 device to be found anywhere on their site at that time cost $0.99. Ok, one could say that's only a 3dB difference ;-)> Freescale's press release says this : > "Suggested resale pricing for 10,000-piece quantities starts at 43 cents > (USD)." > > ( for this family DigiKey mentions 43.2c/2500 ) > > Microchip's press release mentions "49c/10K PIC10F200" > > Digikey might take issue with "proper" disti comment :) > > So, with the right care, you can see Digikey's price actually shows > a very good correlation with the Chip Vendors press release claims. >Indeed. I use Digikey as a default for three purposes: They have the best search engine to find parts, way better than Mouser and Newark. Next, their 1K pricing is a pretty good tool to find which parts are the better deal. Then we usually buy the parts for the first 10-20 units there so I log their P/N along with the mfg P/N as I find the parts. Saves a lot of time for my clients. Mouser and Newark could do better if they fixed their search engines. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Joerg wrote:>> What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also >> 'no indication of pricing' ? >> > > Often that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember TI before the > MSP430F2xxx series where they touted "starting at $0.49"? Yet the > cheapest MSP430 device to be found anywhere on their site at that time > cost $0.99. Ok, one could say that's only a 3dB difference ;-)I'd call that one the 'mask creepage effect' :) If companies have mask variants, they can often be a lot lower in price, but they will use 'from XYc' to hook customer interest. Another point if favour of Digikey - removes the 'marketing license with english' that often occurs. Still, it could be FPGA prices, which are completely 'not of this world' : where they quote the projected price for 250,000 pcs, end of 2008 !? -jg
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Jim Granville wrote:> Joerg wrote: > >>> What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also >>> 'no indication of pricing' ? >>> >> >> Often that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember TI before >> the MSP430F2xxx series where they touted "starting at $0.49"? Yet the >> cheapest MSP430 device to be found anywhere on their site at that time >> cost $0.99. Ok, one could say that's only a 3dB difference ;-) > > > I'd call that one the 'mask creepage effect' :) > > If companies have mask variants, they can often be a lot > lower in price, but they will use 'from XYc' to hook > customer interest.It backfires. With me TI did not get a single design-win with the MSP430 to date. Either the performance wasn't there (not enough timers and/or CCR, usually) or the analog solution cost a lot less. The architecture that scored best in terms of sales with me was, ahem, cough, the 80C51 family.> Another point if favour of Digikey - removes the 'marketing > license with english' that often occurs. > > Still, it could be FPGA prices, which are completely > 'not of this world' : where they quote the projected > price for 250,000 pcs, end of 2008 !? >.... stated in 1956 Dollars so it looks better :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply by ●August 9, 20072007-08-09
Joerg wrote:> Jim Granville wrote: > >> Joerg wrote: >> >>>> What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also >>>> 'no indication of pricing' ? >>>> >>> >>> Often that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember TI before >>> the MSP430F2xxx series where they touted "starting at $0.49"? Yet the >>> cheapest MSP430 device to be found anywhere on their site at that >>> time cost $0.99. Ok, one could say that's only a 3dB difference ;-) >> >> >> >> I'd call that one the 'mask creepage effect' :) >> >> If companies have mask variants, they can often be a lot >> lower in price, but they will use 'from XYc' to hook >> customer interest. > > > > It backfires. With me TI did not get a single design-win with the MSP430 > to date. Either the performance wasn't there (not enough timers and/or > CCR, usually) or the analog solution cost a lot less.Yup. In a recent design we even used Bipolar SOT223 power devices, as they were cheaper than MOSFETS, so there are plenty of 'legs' in even old-analog these days.> The architecture that scored best in terms of sales with me was, ahem, > cough, the 80C51 family.No surprise there ;) The Silabs C8051T60x do seem to be the first foray into sub 50c 80C51's CoreRiver have a new 4 bit ATOM family [very] 'Reduced 8051 Architecture' but I've not seen prices yet on that. If Silabs can hit 46c with a 2K/256R/PCA/UART device then the much simpler GC49C501G0 with 1K/64R should be a lot cheaper (one hopes?) -jg
Reply by ●August 10, 20072007-08-10
In article <46bb6fab$1@clear.net.nz>, Jim Granville <no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> writes>Chris Hills wrote: >> In article <xnd4xwvmb1.fsf@delorie.com>, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> writes >> >>> >>> Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> writes: >>> >>>> Don't be silly... on 50-100K quantities he needs a proper disci. Not a >>>> catalogue disti >>> >>> >>> Well, duh. I don't have access to large quantity channels, so I can >>> only point to digikey as a reference, and showing the digikey bulk >>> cost at least shows that it's far cheaper than other chips, close to >>> his price range, and something to investigate. >> The Digi price gives no indication on pricing on 50-100K from a >>"proper" disti. > > That's a strange claim - "no indication" ? - so you are saying it >could be MORE than the digikey price ?!? > > What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also >'no indication of pricing' ? > > Freescale's press release says this : >"Suggested resale pricing for 10,000-piece quantities starts at 43 >cents (USD)." > >( for this family DigiKey mentions 43.2c/2500 ) > >Microchip's press release mentions "49c/10K PIC10F200" > >Digikey might take issue with "proper" disti comment :) > >So, with the right care, you can see Digikey's price actually shows >a very good correlation with the Chip Vendors press release claims.So Digi is the Recommended Retail Price. This is not the same thing as the price from a disti. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org www.phaedsys.org \/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●August 10, 20072007-08-10
Chris Hills wrote:> In article <46bb6fab$1@clear.net.nz>, Jim Granville > <no.spam@designtools.maps.co.nz> writes > >> Chris Hills wrote: >> >>> In article <xnd4xwvmb1.fsf@delorie.com>, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> >>> writes >>> >>>> >>>> Chris Hills <chris@phaedsys.org> writes: >>>> >>>>> Don't be silly... on 50-100K quantities he needs a proper disci. Not a >>>>> catalogue disti >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, duh. I don't have access to large quantity channels, so I can >>>> only point to digikey as a reference, and showing the digikey bulk >>>> cost at least shows that it's far cheaper than other chips, close to >>>> his price range, and something to investigate. >>> >>> The Digi price gives no indication on pricing on 50-100K from a >>> "proper" disti. >> >> >> That's a strange claim - "no indication" ? - so you are saying it >> could be MORE than the digikey price ?!? >> >> What about the Chip Manufacturer press releases - are they also >> 'no indication of pricing' ? >> >> Freescale's press release says this : >> "Suggested resale pricing for 10,000-piece quantities starts at 43 >> cents (USD)." >> >> ( for this family DigiKey mentions 43.2c/2500 ) >> >> Microchip's press release mentions "49c/10K PIC10F200" >> >> Digikey might take issue with "proper" disti comment :) >> >> So, with the right care, you can see Digikey's price actually shows >> a very good correlation with the Chip Vendors press release claims. > > > So Digi is the Recommended Retail Price. This is not the same thing as > the price from a disti.I presume you meant resale, not retail ? No one has mentioned retail, and 2500pcs is not a retail column. So, if Freescale say Resale price is 43c/10k, and Digikey have 43.2c/2.5k, what price DO you expect from your disti (who is, guess what.... a reseller!) ? -jg
