I am new to microcontrollers, and am in the process of designing a prototype of what I hope to be a commercial device. I have narrowed down the choices of microcontroller, and so far the best choice seems to be the Freescale M68HC08 family, because of low-cost and power, and up to 4K RAM. I should mention that I am at a university. What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers. If I design for a particular package (surface mount) and processor, what is the probability that it or some pin and code compatible equivalent will still be available some years later? I know that Freescale was recently spun off of Motorola. Is this reassuring or worrisome? Thanks, David Linker
Lifespan of microcontrollers?
Started by ●September 22, 2004
Reply by ●September 22, 20042004-09-22
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:07:46 -0700, the renowned David Linker <dtlinker@u.washington.edu> wrote:>I am new to microcontrollers, and am in the process of designing a >prototype of what I hope to be a commercial device. I have narrowed down >the choices of microcontroller, and so far the best choice seems to be >the Freescale M68HC08 family, because of low-cost and power, and up to >4K RAM. I should mention that I am at a university. > >What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers. If I design for >a particular package (surface mount) and processor, what is the >probability that it or some pin and code compatible equivalent will >still be available some years later?Approximately zero, for large values of "some".>I know that Freescale was recently >spun off of Motorola. Is this reassuring or worrisome?Yes, probably. ;-) They might concentrate on their higher end stuff. Or not.>Thanks, >David LinkerMost micros are single sourced and this is a general problem for lower volume products. Using well-written software (possibly in a HLL) can ease the transition if the product has to be redesigned in the future. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●September 22, 20042004-09-22
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:07:46 -0700, David Linker <dtlinker@u.washington.edu> wrote:><snip> >What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers. If I design for >a particular package (surface mount) and processor, what is the >probability that it or some pin and code compatible equivalent will >still be available some years later?This is phrased as a rather general question and any rather general answer will probably not be very useful when you try and apply it to specific circumstances, such as the Mot part you mentioned. And eventually, everything goes away (try getting an 8087 math coproc, for example.) Once you've selected the range of reasonable choices given your requirements and boundary conditions, you might call the few manufacturers (and distributors, as well) and ask for a detailed sense. Such opinions or statements may not be accurate either but they will be more aligned with the part than general comments might be, I think. Also, you can tell them the time period you are considering with more accuracy, I suppose, than you have here.>I know that Freescale was recently >spun off of Motorola. Is this reassuring or worrisome?I don't know that anyone can tell you what the results will be. One guess might be that there will be a narrower focus with more concentration on what is successful and a willingness to shuck away that which isn't, because they may not be able to internally fund a poorly performing (marketwise) product for as long as Mot might choose to do. On the other hand, they may also be more willing to take the longer view in order to build reputation. Or it just might be that you picked the one that will be more successful, longer term. Jon
Reply by ●September 22, 20042004-09-22
Hi Spehro,>>What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers. If I design for >>a particular package (surface mount) and processor, what is the >>probability that it or some pin and code compatible equivalent will >>still be available some years later? >> >> > >Approximately zero, for large values of "some". > >ROFL. But it is often the sad truth.>>I know that Freescale was recently >>spun off of Motorola. Is this reassuring or worrisome? >> >> > >Yes, probably. ;-) They might concentrate on their higher end stuff. >Or not. > > > >>Thanks, >>David Linker >> >> > >Most micros are single sourced and this is a general problem for lower >volume products. Using well-written software (possibly in a HLL) can >ease the transition if the product has to be redesigned in the future. > >The only one that isn't always single sourced depending on the fanciness level of the particular controller is the 8051 family. That's why we used them almost exclusively in the past. But the MSP430 seems interesting and since that series is new and expanding quickly it may be around for quite a while. That one will probably remain single sourced though and that is one downside. The other is that it won't drive most FETs too well because it can't run above 3.6V. Micros tend to have a longer product life cycle than other stuff such as RAM, panacea chips or PC processors. The main reason is that they are used in a lot of long-lived industrial gear. One nice indicator for product longevity is defense use. But the lower end versions might disappear even then. Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
David Linker <dtlinker@u.washington.edu> wrote: [...]> I should mention that I am at a university.> What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers.[...] You don't, and nobody else does. Beyond their current planning horizon, even the actual companies that make those things don't know. Companies go bancrupt, chips drop out of use, production technologies become outdated, factories are refurbished, and whatnot. As Einstein is attributed to have put it: predictions are terribly hard, especially those that concern the future. If you're doing this for a university project, which is probably of negligible size in terms of number of chips used for it, compared to the yearly production of whatever chip you chose, my best shot at an answer would be: stop worrying about it, and just use what suits your needs, *now*. The rationale being that any predictions would be seriously unreliable, and if they fail, there's zero chance your small project is going to manage to convince the part maker to keep making these parts for any significant period beyond the date set by their markedroids and controlling department. Depending on the detailed reasons why you'll still be needing parts in a couple of years, either buy your project's lifetime expected need in stock, right now, or prepare plans to throw future students at the project to re-design it if the chip does indeed vanish. At the very least, assign someone to keep an eye on the part maker and set aside funds to buy lifetime stocked supply as soon as the part threatens to be discontinued. -- Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de) Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
Jonathan Kirwan <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote in message news:<kmq3l09dc4sg5caqhoabn4j89cg7p9ha8a@4ax.com>...> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:07:46 -0700, David Linker <dtlinker@u.washington.edu> > wrote: >More than the military, high volume users like the car companies will drive the market and keep that part there. In the Mot line, and in other lines, there are some parts that are more in demand than others. These also are the low cost ones because of volume. These are less likely to be quickly snipped off. And, yes, programming in a High Level Language can help. Also keep memory sites as constants, as these will change with a new processor. And modularize things that are processor dependent. Sean
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
"Joerg" <notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> wrote in message news:Cnn4d.24315$Jx6.16893@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...> Hi Spehro, >>> >>Most micros are single sourced and this is a general problem for lower >>volume products. Using well-written software (possibly in a HLL) can >>ease the transition if the product has to be redesigned in the future. >> > The only one that isn't always single sourced depending on the fanciness > level of the particular controller is the 8051 family. That's why we used > them almost exclusively in the past. But the MSP430 seems interesting and > since that series is new and expanding quickly it may be around for quite > a while. That one will probably remain single sourced though and that is > one downside. The other is that it won't drive most FETs too well because > it can't run above 3.6V.Arm7 and arm9 aren't single source, lots of different manufacturers and options. Arm7 in small packages (100 pins and under) Philips lpc2100 http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/markets/mms/products/microcontrollers/key_solutions/32bit/index.html Analog devices (with 1Mbps 12 bit ADC) http://www.analog.com/IST/SelectionTable/?selection_table_id=212 Atmel (has a few tqfp/lqfp 100 parts) http://www.atmel.com/products/AT91 ST http://www.st.com/stonline/products/support/micro/arm/str7.htm usb and can in a 64 pin package Anyone know how to get some ? Lot of manufacturers with larger parts Sharp (some with lcd controllers) http://www.sharpsma.com/sma/Products/mcu_soc/pdf/product_selector_web.pdf http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/families/ARM7Family.html Tools www.gnuarm.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lpc2000/ http://www.ocdemon.net/full_gnu.htm Alex
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
> Arm7 and arm9 aren't single source, lots of different manufacturers and > options.On the contrary, *all* ARM7 and ARM9 parts are single-source. There is no generic jellybean lowest-common-denominator pin-compatible ARM part offered by two or more manufacturers, to my knowledge. ARM is a core, not a chip!
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
Hello Hans-Bernhard,>... or prepare plans to throw future students at the project to re-design it if the chip does indeed vanish. >That is a good idea. Even in my days 20 years back it became harder to find a true hardware project. That, BTW, was at the same university where you are now.> At the very least, assign someone to keep an eye on the part maker and set aside >funds to buy lifetime stocked supply as soon as the part threatens to be discontinued. > >What funds? Just kidding but funds for HW parts were usually hard to come by. Unless the project had industry funding which was my favorite way to go. Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com
Reply by ●September 23, 20042004-09-23
David Linker <dtlinker@u.washington.edu> wrote in message news:<dtlinker-856B0E.14074522092004@gnus01.u.washington.edu>...> I am new to microcontrollers, and am in the process of designing a > prototype of what I hope to be a commercial device. I have narrowed down > the choices of microcontroller, and so far the best choice seems to be > the Freescale M68HC08 family, because of low-cost and power, and up to > 4K RAM. I should mention that I am at a university. > > What I don't know is the life-cycle of microcontrollers. If I design for > a particular package (surface mount) and processor, what is the > probability that it or some pin and code compatible equivalent will > still be available some years later? I know that Freescale was recently > spun off of Motorola. Is this reassuring or worrisome? > > Thanks, > > David LinkerYou have to consider that for a commercial device "some years later" you will probably have to do a cost reduction redesign to stay competitive, also, distributors stock excess microcontrollers long after the manufacturer has discontinued them so thats an option (unless you need 100,000 of them, but 10,000 is common). Manufacturers will also give you advanced notice of products that will be discontinued, at that point you can do a lifetime buy or alternatively buy enough of them so you can have time to redesign your product. steve