Firmware and device drivers

Hi,
I would like to request some help in understanding the relationship
beween firmware and device drivers.
My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
functions pertaining to that device.
But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with the
device. So how does the functionality of the device driver differ from
that of the firmware ? Does the device driver communicate with the
firmware to control the device or are these two mutually exclusive ?
I am newbie to this concept and would request someone to clarify the
above or provide links which clearly explain the distinction.

Thanks
-kmeson

On Sep 26, 8:24 am, kmeson <kmeson...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
> the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
> functions pertaining to that device.

If you're talking about a device that attaches to a PC, this isn't
necessarily true. An increasing number of peripherals have only a very
small bootloader built into ROM/EEPROM/FLASH. The firmware is resident
in the device driver, which uploads it to the peripheral at boot time.

Anyway, the short answer to your question is that if it runs in the
device, it's firmware - if it runs on the PC, it's a driver.

On 2007-09-26, kmeson <kmeson333@gmail.com> wrote:

> I would like to request some help in understanding the
> relationship beween firmware and device drivers. My
> understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored
> on the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs
> specific functions pertaining to that device.

Firmware is software stoered in non-volatile memory in an
embedded system.

> But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with
> the device. So how does the functionality of the device driver
> differ from that of the firmware?

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Firmware might actually
contain a device drivers.

> Does the device driver communicate with the firmware

Maybe, if the board containing the firmware on a board that is
part of a larger host system which uses a device driver to
interface with the board containing the firmware.

> to control the device or are these two mutually exclusive?

The two are orthogonal.  Firmware refers to where the software
is stored.  Device driver refers to the purpose of a particular
chunk of software.

> I am newbie to this concept and would request someone to
> clarify the above or provide links which clearly explain the
> distinction.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Are we THERE yet?
                                  at               My MIND is a SUBMARINE!!
                               visi.com            

On 2007-09-26, larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 26, 8:24 am, kmeson <kmeson...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
>> the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
>> functions pertaining to that device.
>
> If you're talking about a device that attaches to a PC, this isn't
> necessarily true. An increasing number of peripherals have only a very
> small bootloader built into ROM/EEPROM/FLASH. The firmware is resident
> in the device driver, which uploads it to the peripheral at boot time.

Which is sort of bending the original meaning of "firmware" a
bit past the breaking point, but that's the way natural
languages work.

> Anyway, the short answer to your question is that if it runs in the
> device, it's firmware - if it runs on the PC, it's a driver.

Unless it's a device driver within some firmware.  There are
"firmwares" that are quite large (e.g. embedded Linux systems)
and manage a diverse set of peripherals on their own. Those
firmwares contain device drivers for the various peripherals on
the board where the firmware is running.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Will this never-ending
                                  at               series of PLEASURABLE
                               visi.com            EVENTS never cease?

In article <13fksf01mt4uaf7@corp.supernews.com>, Grant Edwards says...
> Unless it's a device driver within some firmware.  There are
> "firmwares" that are quite large (e.g. embedded Linux systems)
> and manage a diverse set of peripherals on their own. Those
> firmwares contain device drivers for the various peripherals on
> the board where the firmware is running.

Of course you don't need a particularly large (a la Linux) firmware 
image to use device drivers.  They can be useful for smaller 
applications.  Asyncronous serial, SPI and IIC in particular.

Robert

-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

> My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
> the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
> functions pertaining to that device.
> But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with the
> device. So how does the functionality of the device driver differ from
> that of the firmware ?

Firmware is software which executes on its own in some MCU or whatever
system a device has.
 Device drivers are pieces of software which belong to an OS; they are
used by the OS device independent I/O functions (filesystem etc.)
to access various hardware, i.e. they provide a standard software
interface between the OS and various hardware which it has to access
(like an ATA disk, a SCSI disk, some USB thing, you name it).
 Thus if the firmware of some gizmo includes an OS, it is likely
it will contain its own inherent device drivers... :-).

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------

On Sep 26, 3:24 pm, kmeson <kmeson...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to request some help in understanding the relationship
> beween firmware and device drivers.
> My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
> the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
> functions pertaining to that device.
> But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with the
> device. So how does the functionality of the device driver differ from
> that of the firmware ? Does the device driver communicate with the
> firmware to control the device or are these two mutually exclusive ?
> I am newbie to this concept and would request someone to clarify the
> above or provide links which clearly explain the distinction.
>
> Thanks
> -kmeson

kmeson wrote:
> Hi,
> I would like to request some help in understanding the relationship
> beween firmware and device drivers.
> My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
> the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
> functions pertaining to that device.
> But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with the
> device. So how does the functionality of the device driver differ from
> that of the firmware ? Does the device driver communicate with the
> firmware to control the device or are these two mutually exclusive ?
> I am newbie to this concept and would request someone to clarify the
> above or provide links which clearly explain the distinction.
> 

The system's firmware generally provides the required environment 
for a device's firmware to exercise the device. Similarly OS 
provides the environment for a device driver to make use of the 
device. Although it gets interesting when you are referring an 
external device with a controller e.g. external USB storage 
device. In this case the device would carry it's own firmware and 
the system OS (USB storage) driver would talk to the device via 
USB stack implemented in the OS. The USB responses from the 
external device would mainly be driven by the firmware running on it.

Regards,
Anand.

On Sep 27, 3:30 pm, Anand Misra <Anand.Mi...@Sun.COM> wrote:
> kmeson wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I would like to request some help in understanding the relationship
> > beween firmware and device drivers.
> > My understanding of firmware is software that is generally stored on
> > the ROM/EEPROM/flash of a device controller and performs specific
> > functions pertaining to that device.
> > But a device driver also helps the user in interacting with the
> > device. So how does the functionality of the device driver differ from
> > that of the firmware ? Does the device driver communicate with the
> > firmware to control the device or are these two mutually exclusive ?
> > I am newbie to this concept and would request someone to clarify the
> > above or provide links which clearly explain the distinction.
>
> The system's firmware generally provides the required environment
> for a device's firmware to exercise the device. Similarly OS
> provides the environment for a device driver to make use of the
> device. Although it gets interesting when you are referring an
> external device with a controller e.g. external USB storage
> device. In this case the device would carry it's own firmware and
> the system OS (USB storage) driver would talk to the device via
> USB stack implemented in the OS. The USB responses from the
> external device would mainly be driven by the firmware running on it.
>
> Regards,
> Anand.

I have a question: Is there a place on the PC where drivers are
stored? Once they are installed; is there a particular location/path/
folder this device driver can be located? Can it be copied and pasted
into a new system, and provide functionality on the new system?
Thanks

On 2007-10-01, dougmerriman@gmail.com <dougmerriman@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a question: Is there a place on the PC where drivers
> are stored?

Yes.  Usually in files on the hard drive.

> Once they are installed; is there a particular location/path/
> folder this device driver can be located?

Usually yes.

> Can it be copied and pasted into a new system, and provide
> functionality on the new system? Thanks

Maybe. It depends on the OS.  You might have to configure the
OS to use the driver.  The driver may only work with particular
versions of the OS.

-- 
Grant