hi i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051? many thanks john
recommendation of microcontroller please
Started by ●November 20, 2007
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On 2007-11-20, johnstokes30 <johnstokes30@gmail.com> wrote:> i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on > a very well established microcontoller. I know that PICs are > becoming more popular but can someone tell me of a controller > that is popular in industry for several years (8 or 16 bit) > and also has products available that i can use to learn such > as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051?First I'd recommend the TI MSP430: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=2_11 They're very easy to program and understand (in C or assembly) and have a nice set of peripherals. They're especially good for low-power, battery operated things. You can get a small devlopment board/system for as little as $20, and some pretty powerful eval boards for not much more than that: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=2_11 If you want to solder some extra stuff on, the proto boards towards the bottom of the above page work nicely. The MSP430 port of GCC works quite well: http://mspgcc.sourceforge.net/ The tools from Rowley are highly regarded and very reasonably priced (personal licenses are only �75): http://www.rowley.co.uk/msp430/ My second recommendation would probably be The AVR Atmega family: http://www.atmel.com/products/AVR/ Eval/proto boards seem to be harder to find, but there are some available: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=2_10 Like the MSP430, the gcc port works well (here's a windows package): http://winavr.sourceforge.net/ Rowley also supports the AVR: http://www.rowley.co.uk/avr/ A lot of people use IAR tools for both these platforms but they're way down on my list because of: 1) Price. 2) Dongle and license-server hassles. 3) No Linux support. If you can stomach those issues, IAR tools are solid and their support seems good (IIRC, there are crippled and/or time-limited eval versions of IAR tools available for both platforms). Both the AVR and the MSP are popular for both hobby and commercial use. IMO, the 8-bit PIC is a very nasty little architecture and is difficult to work with. It's not a part I recommend to somebody just learning embedded programming. There are C compilers for it, but it's not well suited for C-language projects. I've heard that some of the newer PIC arcitetures don't suck as badly, but that isn't saying much. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm having an at EMOTIONAL OUTBURST!! But, visi.com uh, WHY is there a WAFFLE in my PAJAMA POCKET??
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On 2007-11-20, Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> wrote:> On 2007-11-20, johnstokes30 <johnstokes30@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on >> a very well established microcontoller. > > First I'd recommend the TI MSP430: > > http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php?cPath=2_11Oops. That was suppplosed to be this link http://www.msp430.com/ -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Let's send the at Russians defective visi.com lifestyle accessories!
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
"johnstokes30" <johnstokes30@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet news:iYednf73dqkqdd_anZ2dnUVZ_t2inZ2d@giganews.com...> hi > i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well > established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular > but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for > several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use > to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051? > > many thanks > john >With the AVR, you need (want) the following tools. 1) gcc C compiler - or IAR. Some like Imagecraft. 2) AVR Studio 3) STK500 development board 4) JTAG-ICE Mk II. If you want a real cheap environment, then you can try out the AVR Dragon which is a low cost, low featur combination of STK500 + JTAGICE Mk II but only works for chips with 32 kB flash or less. You can get IAR, Imagecraft etc compilers which are limited to about 4 kB code for free. www.avrfreaks.net will be your friend. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson This is intended to be my personal opinion which may, or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On Nov 20, 9:01 am, "johnstokes30" <johnstoke...@gmail.com> wrote:> i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well > established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular > but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for > several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use > to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051?I agree with Grant that the msp430 is terrific but I'd recommend the AVR family for beginners. Although I've used 68hc12 for years I have some concerns about this for new people. The 68hc08 is not friendly to newbies. PICs are easy to use with BASIC Stamps, but there are no decent free C compilers for the 16F devices and their performance with C compiled code is not very good. I'm still working on my tools document but you can see my family selection document here: http://www.ericengler.com/downloads/microcontroller%20family%20selection%20guide.pdf You may need help selecting tools because it's more compilated that it should be. Eric
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On 2007-11-20, Eric <englere_geo@yahoo.com> wrote:> I'm still working on my tools document but you can see my > family selection document here: > http://www.ericengler.com/downloads/microcontroller%20family%20selection%20guide.pdfI love your comments about MSP430 marketing's use of the "RISC" and "emulated instruction" terms. Everytime I attend something where there's a TI FAE, he begins by apolgizing those terms in order to pre-empt the inevitable questions/complaints. TI's brain-dead mar-com stuff also frequenty talks about having a "single-cycle instruction set" or something equally bogus (some of the instructions take up to 5 clock cycles). -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! LBJ, LBJ, how many at JOKES did you tell today??! visi.com
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On 2007-11-20, Ulf Samuelsson <ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com> wrote:> "johnstokes30" <johnstokes30@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet > news:iYednf73dqkqdd_anZ2dnUVZ_t2inZ2d@giganews.com... >> hi >> i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well >> established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular >> but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for >> several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use >> to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051? >> >> many thanks >> john >> > > With the AVR, you need (want) the following tools. > > 1) gcc C compiler - or IAR. Some like Imagecraft. > 2) AVR StudioIf you're a linux person: avrdude.> 3) STK500 development board > 4) JTAG-ICE Mk II.-- Grant Edwards grante@visi.com
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
Ulf Samuelsson wrote:> "johnstokes30" <johnstokes30@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet > news:iYednf73dqkqdd_anZ2dnUVZ_t2inZ2d@giganews.com... > >>hi >>i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well >>established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular >>but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for >>several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use >>to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051? >> >>many thanks >>john >> > > > With the AVR, you need (want) the following tools. > > 1) gcc C compiler - or IAR. Some like Imagecraft. > 2) AVR Studio > 3) STK500 development board > 4) JTAG-ICE Mk II. > > If you want a real cheap environment, then you can try out the AVR Dragon > which is a low cost, low featur combination of STK500 + JTAGICE Mk II > but only works for chips with 32 kB flash or less.Can you clarify "only works for chips with 32 kB flash or less" ? - so that means the JTAG-ICE Mk II therein, is not going to also work with an AVR32, for example ? Then what - you buy another JTAG-ICE Mk II ? How do you then tell them appart ? 'Low feature' means what ? - just that 32K ceiling, or do other things not work either ? Seems a little strange having a ceiling on an ICE. ST don't mention any on their STM32 Ice ? -jg
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On Nov 20, 12:43 pm, Grant Edwards <gra...@visi.com> wrote:> TI's brain-dead mar-com stuff also frequenty talks about having > a "single-cycle instruction set" or something equally bogus > (some of the instructions take up to 5 clock cycles).yea but everyone's guilty of that one (AVR too)
Reply by ●November 20, 20072007-11-20
On Nov 20, 6:01 am, "johnstokes30" <johnstoke...@gmail.com> wrote:> hi > i am new here. i would like to learn embedded programming on a very well > established microcontoller. I know that PICs are becoming more popular > but can someone tell me of a controller that is popular in industry for > several years (8 or 16 bit) and also has products available that i can use > to learn such as demo kits. motorola 68XX? Atmel? 8051? > > many thanks > johnI would suggest a 32 bit ARM, for $20 you can be up and running with a C complier and eval board in a few hours (Analog devices in my case)
