Any uC manufacturers have free c compilers?

In article <engik31l5rbvl9pptr485feqts23jkq6sf@4ax.com>, The Real Andy <therealandy@nospam.com> writes:
> I have been out of the design game for 5 odd years now. I would like
> to do a few projects, but its not worth it if I have to spend
> thousands on c compilers. I am too lazy to do assembler these days
> (thats what PC programming does to you!) so asm is out. Looking for
> small devices from atmel and zilog and the like. The last toughest
> requirement is I use windows, so no linux. Any suggestions?

Freescale appear to still do a free, but code size limited, special
edition of CodeWarrior for the HC08. See:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=01272600610BF1

Note that I have not used it for several years (I use Linux these days)
so I don't know how stable it is, or what functionality it currently
contains.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980's technology to a 21st century world

On Nov 26, 4:28 am, The Real Andy <thereala...@nospam.com> wrote:
> Cheers Al. Will take a look at the Atmel parts. The zilog stuff looks
> like it has potential as well. In fact, I spotted a zilog part that
> might fit the bill perfectly. I want to do some 12V Batt
> charging/management for the boat and 4wd and I figure that I can roll
> it all into a single package. Might have a poke around the Atmel site
> and see what parts they have.

If that's what you are looking to do, you might want to take a look at
Analog Devices.  They have an ARM part designed to fit that role.

Robert

David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> writes:
> The same applies to Red Hat, although they work on different aspects
> of gcc.

Our group (GES) does embedded, just like Code Sourcery.  We do ARM and
MIPS also, but also mn10300, m32c, frv, iq2000, h8/300, and a few
other uncommon chips.  No free downloads though, except for the FSF
sources.  It's just not our "core focus" (which is servers), but see:

  http://www.redhat.com/services/custom/gnupro/

The m32c and mep ports are my handiwork :-)

And I use the m32c parts in most of my projects at home, too, like
this one, which uses an R8C/20:

  http://www.delorie.com/electronics/usb-gpio/

On 2007-11-26, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:
>
> David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> writes:
>> The same applies to Red Hat, although they work on different aspects
>> of gcc.
>
> Our group (GES) does embedded, just like Code Sourcery.  We do ARM and
> MIPS also, but also mn10300, m32c, frv, iq2000, h8/300, and a few
> other uncommon chips.  No free downloads though, except for the FSF
> sources.  It's just not our "core focus" (which is servers), but see:
>
>   http://www.redhat.com/services/custom/gnupro/

No support for the smaller chips (6812, AVR, MSP430) that a
tinkerer like the OP would be using?

Are the versions shipped really as ancient as those listed on
the page (gcc 2.95.3, gdb 4.0)?  Or does the "and above" mean
that later versions are also being shipped.  [I think most
people would be more interested to know the most recent version
supported rather than the oldest version supported.]

> The m32c and mep ports are my handiwork :-)
>
> And I use the m32c parts in most of my projects at home, too, like
> this one, which uses an R8C/20:
>
>   http://www.delorie.com/electronics/usb-gpio/

Nice little project.  What did you use to layout the PCB.  I
haven't seen smothly curved traces like that since the days of
bishop graphics tape and hand-cut rubylith film.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Were these parsnips
                                  at               CORRECTLY MARINATED in
                               visi.com            TACO SAUCE?

Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> writes:
> No support for the smaller chips (6812, AVR, MSP430) that a
> tinkerer like the OP would be using?

If you wanted to buy enough support seats, we'll sell support for
pretty much anything ;-)

Keep in mind that gcc doesn't "like" small parts, esp 8-bit mcus.  I
had a hard time getting it to produce good code on the m32c family,
which has a mix of register sizes.

> Are the versions shipped really as ancient as those listed on
> the page (gcc 2.95.3, gdb 4.0)?

No, the page is just out of date.  We push to have the new chips
added, though.  We're currently shipping gcc 4.2.x and gdb 6.5.

> >   http://www.delorie.com/electronics/usb-gpio/
> 
> Nice little project.  What did you use to layout the PCB?

gEDA and PCB :-)  http://pcb.sourceforge.net/

(I'm one of the PCB developers)

> I haven't seen smoothly curved traces like that since the days of
> bishop graphics tape and hand-cut rubylith film.

Data General used to have software that did that also, which gave me
the idea.  It's a recent option in pcb called the "global puller" I've
been working on, although on more complex boards it still sometimes
goes nuts with the traces.  The result is always a work of art, it's
just that sometimes the artist is a two year old with a crayon.

I'm not sure it's worth the effort, but it does make pcb's board
unique.

On 2007-11-26, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:

>> No support for the smaller chips (6812, AVR, MSP430) that a
>> tinkerer like the OP would be using?
>
> If you wanted to buy enough support seats, we'll sell support for
> pretty much anything ;-)

I assumed that support was probably weighted towards
architectures capable of running embedded Linux.  Are you guys
what's left of Cygnus after the eCos guys in England got cut
loose?

> Keep in mind that gcc doesn't "like" small parts, esp 8-bit mcus.  I
> had a hard time getting it to produce good code on the m32c family,
> which has a mix of register sizes.

It does a pretty good job with 16-bit parts like the 6812 and
MSP430 (I sure which '430 support would get merged into the
official gcc sources).  The AVR support isn't too bad, but it
is a purely 8-bit part and that really hurts things like
pointer manipulation.

>> Nice little project.  What did you use to layout the PCB?
>
> gEDA and PCB :-)  http://pcb.sourceforge.net/
>
> (I'm one of the PCB developers)

I tried to get gEDA and PCB going about a year ago, but the
peices weren't going together very smoothly for me.  I broke
down and used Eagle.

>> I haven't seen smoothly curved traces like that since the days
>> of bishop graphics tape and hand-cut rubylith film.
>
> Data General used to have software that did that also, which
> gave me the idea.  It's a recent option in pcb called the
> "global puller" I've been working on, although on more complex
> boards it still sometimes goes nuts with the traces.  The
> result is always a work of art, it's just that sometimes the
> artist is a two year old with a crayon.
>
> I'm not sure it's worth the effort, but it does make pcb's
> board unique.

Yup, they certainly caught my eye.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! I'm meditating on
                                  at               the FORMALDEHYDE and the
                               visi.com            ASBESTOS leaking into my
                                                   PERSONAL SPACE!!

Grant Edwards <grante@visi.com> writes:
> I assumed that support was probably weighted towards architectures
> capable of running embedded Linux.

Or manufacturers who offer such chips; the m32c family can't run Linux
but Renesas's SH family can.

> Are you guys what's left of Cygnus after the eCos guys in England
> got cut loose?

Half of us are Cygnoids, yes.  The other half are leftovers from the
Wirespeed acquisition.  Most of the Cygnoids now support those same
tools but for native Linux, in another group in the company.

> The AVR support isn't too bad, but it is a purely 8-bit part and
> that really hurts things like pointer manipulation.

It gets worse when you have 24 bit pointers, like the m32c.

> I tried to get gEDA and PCB going about a year ago, but the peices
> weren't going together very smoothly for me.  I broke down and used
> Eagle.

We've come a long way recently, although our Windows support is still
weak and the PCB documentation is sorely in need of a rewrite, a
project I just started this week.

As for Eagle, many of my boards would have exceeded it's free
version's limitations anyway.

On 2007-11-26, DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> wrote:

>> I assumed that support was probably weighted towards architectures
>> capable of running embedded Linux.
>
> Or manufacturers who offer such chips; the m32c family can't
> run Linux but Renesas's SH family can.
>
>> Are you guys what's left of Cygnus after the eCos guys in
>> England got cut loose?
>
> Half of us are Cygnoids, yes.  The other half are leftovers
> from the Wirespeed acquisition.  Most of the Cygnoids now
> support those same tools but for native Linux, in another
> group in the company.
>
>> The AVR support isn't too bad, but it is a purely 8-bit part and
>> that really hurts things like pointer manipulation.
>
> It gets worse when you have 24 bit pointers, like the m32c.

How's the m16c support for the various memory models?  4-5
years ago I was trying to figure out how hard it would be to do
an m16c port that supported the memory model with 64K of data
space and >64K of code space.  It looked pretty difficult to do
it efficiently (without using long pointers for everything).
AFAICT, gcc really didn't like pointers that varied in size and
I wanted to avoid long data pointers.  It all turned out to be
moot because I ended up using the H8300 with all 32-bit
pointers anyway.

>> I tried to get gEDA and PCB going about a year ago, but the
>> peices weren't going together very smoothly for me.  I broke
>> down and used Eagle.
>
> We've come a long way recently, although our Windows support
> is still weak

That wouldn't have bothered me. :)

> and the PCB documentation is sorely in need of a rewrite, a
> project I just started this week.
>
> As for Eagle, many of my boards would have exceeded it's free
> version's limitations anyway.

I've only done one small board with it and it was well within
the bounds for the free version.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! With YOU, I can be
                                  at               MYSELF ...  We don't NEED
                               visi.com            Dan Rather ...

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:23:05 -0800 (PST), Robert Adsett
<sub2@aeolusdevelopment.com> wrote:

>On Nov 26, 4:28 am, The Real Andy <thereala...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> Cheers Al. Will take a look at the Atmel parts. The zilog stuff looks
>> like it has potential as well. In fact, I spotted a zilog part that
>> might fit the bill perfectly. I want to do some 12V Batt
>> charging/management for the boat and 4wd and I figure that I can roll
>> it all into a single package. Might have a poke around the Atmel site
>> and see what parts they have.
>
>If that's what you are looking to do, you might want to take a look at
>Analog Devices.  They have an ARM part designed to fit that role.
>
>Robert

Thanks Robert. CAn you give me a bit more of a tip, perhaps a part
number or series.?

The Real Andy <therealandy@nospam.com> writes:

> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 06:23:05 -0800 (PST), Robert Adsett
> <sub2@aeolusdevelopment.com> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 26, 4:28 am, The Real Andy <thereala...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> Cheers Al. Will take a look at the Atmel parts. The zilog stuff looks
>>> like it has potential as well. In fact, I spotted a zilog part that
>>> might fit the bill perfectly. I want to do some 12V Batt
>>> charging/management for the boat and 4wd and I figure that I can roll
>>> it all into a single package. Might have a poke around the Atmel site
>>> and see what parts they have.
>>
>>If that's what you are looking to do, you might want to take a look at
>>Analog Devices.  They have an ARM part designed to fit that role.
>>
>>Robert
>
> Thanks Robert. CAn you give me a bit more of a tip, perhaps a part
> number or series.?


<http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,ADUC7033,00.html>

<http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,2877,ADUC7032%252D8L,00.html>

Newest members of the ADUC7000 series.

<http://www.analog.com/en/subCat/0,2879,762%255F%255F0%255F%255F0%255F,00.html>

They are ARM7 based (32 bit). You can get a completely free toolchain,
suggest you lookup WinARM and openocd. Good experience, ARM is
probably the most popular architecture for new devices, there is a
vast range of parts available from many different manufacturers.

These particular variants are sufficiently new and obscure that I
suspect you won't find any ready made 3rd paty development boards
(e.g. from Olimex). ADI do sell one themselves for $250.

-- 

John Devereux