Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never layed out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found a cheap place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the waters by doing a homebrew pcb myself!) Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im thinking about the $65 single sided boards at www.olimex.com/pcb/ . However, Im a little unsure about their requirements: Does a "SINGLE SIDE SSS" normally mean that all the traces will be on one side? i.e. I cant route vias from the bottom to the topside inorder to ease the routing? I would prefer to have 2 signal layers, (no power layers, etc) but this might be the more expensive "DOUBLE SIDE BOARD" option? Also, does the standard drill tools (.7,.9,1,1.1,1.3,1.5,2.1,3.3mm) refer to the thru-hole ICs (in case I have any)? Thanks!
1st Time PCB Design
Started by ●December 21, 2007
Reply by ●December 21, 20072007-12-21
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:40:26 -0800 (PST), benn <benn686@hotmail.com> wrote:>Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never layed >out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) > >I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found a cheap >place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the waters by doing a >homebrew pcb myself!) > >Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im >thinking about the $65 single sided boards at www.olimex.com/pcb/ .There are a lot of suppliers around the $100 mark, depending on speed, how many you want, and shipping method/speed.>However, Im a little unsure about their requirements: > >Does a "SINGLE SIDE SSS" normally mean that all the traces will be on >one side? i.e. I cant route vias from the bottom to the topside >inorder to ease the routing? I would prefer to have 2 signal >layers, (no power layers, etc) but this might be the more expensive >"DOUBLE SIDE BOARD" option?Single-sided means no vias and traces only on one side.>Also, does the standard drill tools (.7,.9,1,1.1,1.3,1.5,2.1,3.3mm) >refer to the thru-hole ICs (in case I have any)? > >Thanks!All holes (including those in footprints). Do pay atention to the minimum trace size, minimum hole size (eg. for vias), and minimum annular ring.. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●December 21, 20072007-12-21
On Dec 21, 11:40 am, benn <benn...@hotmail.com> wrote:> Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never layed > out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) > > I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found a cheap > place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the waters by doing a > homebrew pcb myself!) > > Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im > thinking about the $65 single sided boards atwww.olimex.com/pcb/. > However, Im a little unsure about their requirements: > > Does a "SINGLE SIDE SSS" normally mean that all the traces will be on > one side? i.e. I cant route vias from the bottom to the topside > inorder to ease the routing? I would prefer to have 2 signal > layers, (no power layers, etc) but this might be the more expensive > "DOUBLE SIDE BOARD" option? > > Also, does the standard drill tools (.7,.9,1,1.1,1.3,1.5,2.1,3.3mm) > refer to the thru-hole ICs (in case I have any)? > > Thanks!Hi, Single side does indeed mean that all of the traces are on one side. Typically, jumpers are used in situations where things just won't work otherwise. For an absolute beginner on a budget, one option is <www.pcb123.com> Their software seems to provide the necessary guidance for the beginner, and the ordering process is seamless. A typical beginner mistake is to send gerbers in the wrong format, resulting in a board that is 2.54 times too big. Hope that helps, G.
Reply by ●December 21, 20072007-12-21
On 2007-12-21, benn <benn686@hotmail.com> wrote:> Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never > layed out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) > > I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found > a cheap place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the > waters by doing a homebrew pcb myself!) > > Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so > Im thinking about the $65 single sided boards at > www.olimex.com/pcb/ . However, Im a little unsure about their > requirements: > > Does a "SINGLE SIDE SSS" normally mean that all the traces > will be on one side?Yes. Copper only on one side, no plated through holes.> i.e. I cant route vias from the bottom to the topside inorder > to ease the routing?Right.> I would prefer to have 2 signal layers, (no power layers, etc) > but this might be the more expensive "DOUBLE SIDE BOARD" > option?It is.> Also, does the standard drill tools > (.7,.9,1,1.1,1.3,1.5,2.1,3.3mm) refer to the thru-hole ICs (in > case I have any)?It refers to and and all holes on the board. One of the nice things about Olimex (for me and other Eagle users at least) is that they accept Eagle PCB project files directly, so there's no need to generate multiple Gerber files with different layers and drill tapes and whatnot. [Generating the proper Gerber files is probably the place where the most problems happen for beginners.] Note that Olimex's minimum line width for the silkscreen layer is larger than the default line width in many layout packages (including Eagle). IIRC correctly, there was a macro package I downloaded from Cadsoft's site that you can use to fix up the silkscreen line widths before submitting the file to Olimex. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'm also pre-POURED at pre-MEDITATED and visi.com pre-RAPHAELITE!!
Reply by ●December 21, 20072007-12-21
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 benn wrote:> Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never layed > out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) > > I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found a cheap > place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the waters by doing a > homebrew pcb myself!) > > Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im > thinking about the $65 single sided boards at www.olimex.com/pcb/ . > However, Im a little unsure about their requirements:Might I suggest you take a look at batchPCB(.com) - they do a nice double layer for pretty cheap. I sent off a 90mm x 90mm board and a 30mm x 20mm board last night which cost me, altogether, $57 including postage to the UK. - -- Brendan Gillatt brendan {at} brendangillatt {dot} co {dot} uk http://www.brendangillatt.co.uk PGP Key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xBACD7433 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (MingW32) iD8DBQFHbCmtkA9dCbrNdDMRAli2AKCgjP8R0GENEoYYjKCV9S8ixU5NtgCg0Jvh y8nhJl56wsgfUJ3Ltzxcvi4= =BhfG -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Reply by ●December 21, 20072007-12-21
benn <benn686@hotmail.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded:> Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im > thinking about the $65 single sided boards at www.olimex.com/pcb/ . > However, Im a little unsure about their requirements:If you can find a college/university/institute of technology near you, you could go in to one of the electronics technicians and ask could they send along one circuit board design with the rest of the students' project designs. Obviously they won't pay to get 50 thousand of them made for you but if you're only looking for one and if you explain to them that you're just doing it as a hobby then they'd more than likely help you out. My own college is great for things like that; we use the ".pcb" files that come out of Protel. -- Tom�s � h�ilidhe
Reply by ●December 22, 20072007-12-22
On Dec 21, 1:34 pm, "Tom=E1s =D3 h=C9ilidhe" <t...@lavabit.com> wrote:> benn <benn...@hotmail.com> wrote in comp.arch.embedded: > > > Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im > > thinking about the $65 single sided boards atwww.olimex.com/pcb/. > > However, Im a little unsure about their requirements: > > If you can find a college/university/institute of technology near you,=> you could go in to one of the electronics technicians and ask could they > send along one circuit board design with the rest of the students' project=> designs. Obviously they won't pay to get 50 thousand of them made for you > but if you're only looking for one and if you explain to them that you're > just doing it as a hobby then they'd more than likely help you out. My own=> college is great for things like that; we use the ".pcb" files that come > out of Protel. > > -- > Tom=E1s =D3 h=C9ilidheThanks.. yep I only need one, but Id like to go with a pay service just to get familiar with it in case I ever need to something like this again! Im a software guy, but have access to Protel at work (actually we have a server license but I can connect to my work computer from home!). Anyways, I noticed Olimex and BatchPCB seem to prefer Eagle files, which I don't have. Are "Gerbers" a universal standard that most PCB places accept? Olimex only says it needs: # Input file for TOP copper layer. # Input file for BOTTOM copper layer. # Input file for TOP solder mask layer. # Input file for BOTTOM solder mask layer. # Input file for component print layer. # NC drill file(s) for NC XY coordinates and Drill tools sizes. Note that the drill sizes should be the tool sizes used for drilling i.e. after plating your finished holes will be decreased with 0.1 mm However, from the gerber output selection ( http://i7.tinypic.com/6xa96p2.jp= g ), it generated the following project output files: .rul, .rep, .gts, .gtp, .gto, .gtl, .gpt, .gpb, .gm1, .gg1, .gd1, .gb= s, .gbp, . gbo, .gbl, .extrep, .apr, .apr_lib which Im assuming are more gerber files than I need? Which options should I have checkmarked? Thanks! but not sure which of these files my 2 signal layer board shows these gerber output available:
Reply by ●December 22, 20072007-12-22
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:40:26 -0800 (PST), in comp.arch.embedded benn <benn686@hotmail.com> wrote:>Id like to design a simple board over the holidays, I've never layed >out a board before, so Im a little nervous :) > >I've started the schematic capture, and the routing and found a cheap >place to get it fabd. (I dont want to muddy the waters by doing a >homebrew pcb myself!) > >Id like to go with whatevers the cheapest to manufacture, so Im >thinking about the $65 single sided boards at www.olimex.com/pcb/ . >However, Im a little unsure about their requirements: > > >Does a "SINGLE SIDE SSS" normally mean that all the traces will be on >one side? i.e. I cant route vias from the bottom to the topside >inorder to ease the routing? I would prefer to have 2 signal >layers, (no power layers, etc) but this might be the more expensive >"DOUBLE SIDE BOARD" option? > >Also, does the standard drill tools (.7,.9,1,1.1,1.3,1.5,2.1,3.3mm) >refer to the thru-hole ICs (in case I have any)? > >Thanks!go to http://www.graphicode.com/ and download the free gerber viewer, which may give you a bit more confidence martin
Reply by ●December 22, 20072007-12-22
On 2007-12-22, benn <benn686@hotmail.com> wrote:> Im a software guy, but have access to Protel at work (actually > we have a server license but I can connect to my work computer > from home!). Anyways, I noticed Olimex and BatchPCB seem to > prefer Eagle files, which I don't have.In case you want to give it a try, Eagle is free for hobby use (limited board size): http://www.cadsoft.de/> Are "Gerbers" a universal standard that most PCB places > accept?Yes.> Olimex only says it needs: > > # Input file for TOP copper layer. > # Input file for BOTTOM copper layer. > # Input file for TOP solder mask layer. > # Input file for BOTTOM solder mask layer. > # Input file for component print layer. > # NC drill file(s) for NC XY coordinates and Drill tools sizes. Note > that the drill sizes should be the tool sizes used for drilling i.e. > after plating your finished holes will be decreased with 0.1 mm > > However, from the gerber output selection > (http://i7.tinypic.com/6xa96p2.jpg), it generated the > following project output files: .rul, .rep, .gts, .gtp, .gto, > .gtl, .gpt, .gpb, .gm1, .gg1, .gd1, .gbs, .gbp, . gbo, .gbl, > .extrep, .apr, .apr_lib which Im assuming are more gerber > files than I need? Which options should I have checkmarked?Good question. The "Layer Names" arent using the standard terminology I'm familiar with. I'm guessing the "Top Layer" and "Bottom Layer" are the top/bottom copper layers. You'll have look at the protel docs to figure out what it uses for layer names for the solder-mask and for the silk-screen (print) layers. As somebody else suggested, you can use a gerber viewer to look at the files to see what they are. It looks like you'll also need to generate drill files using the "Drill Drawing" tab. There's all sorts of useful information on the Olimex web site (read the FAQ). There's a tutorial with step-by-step instructions on how to generate the proper files from Protel: http://www.olimex.com/pcb/How%20to%20export%20Gerber%20files%20from%20Altium%20Designer%206.pdf -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I feel partially at hydrogenated! visi.com
Reply by ●December 22, 20072007-12-22
benn wrote:>I noticed Olimex and BatchPCB seem to prefer Eagle files, >which I don't have. >Are "Gerbers" a universal standard that most PCB places accept?Yup. BatchPCB has a pretty good FAQ: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:_W56_6NOiooJ:www.batchpcb.com/faq.php+this.is.the.universal.format+2-layer-*+Excellon-*-*-*+requests+proprietary+Gerber+Drill.file+Gerbers&strip=1 You will need Gerber and Excellon (drill) files for most fab houses.
