microprocessor based fire alarm systems

hi
i am doing a college based project on microprocessor based fire alarm
systems.  I am trying to get information on the microprocessors used in
these applications.

i know that they typically work in a modular fashion with a central unit
that connects to smoke detectors, alarms etc.

can someone tell me what processor is typically used in this central unit?
eg 8bit,16 bit, motorola etc?

i have tried contacting manufacturers of such devices but none reply to
me:(

is there someone here who has such knowledge or an experienced person who
can make an educated guess on this device?

hope that you can help
andrew 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:49:26 -0600, in comp.arch.embedded "a_edwards"
<eecoding@hotmail.com> wrote:

>hi
>i am doing a college based project on microprocessor based fire alarm
>systems.  I am trying to get information on the microprocessors used in
>these applications.
>
>i know that they typically work in a modular fashion with a central unit
>that connects to smoke detectors, alarms etc.
>
>can someone tell me what processor is typically used in this central unit?
>eg 8bit,16 bit, motorola etc?
>
>i have tried contacting manufacturers of such devices but none reply to
>me:(
>
>is there someone here who has such knowledge or an experienced person who
>can make an educated guess on this device?
>
>hope that you can help
>andrew 
>
www.msp430.com ,  a TI site click on application notes, there is a
smoke detector app listed. Lots of good reading there, it should give
you a clue


martin

On Jan 28, 8:49=A0am, "a_edwards" <eecod...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> can someone tell me what processor is typically used in this central unit?=

> eg 8bit,16 bit, motorola etc?
>
> i have tried contacting manufacturers of such devices but none reply to
> me:(

I'm not surprised. There is no pipeline directly to the engineering
department of such a company. (I work for one). You would be surprised
what micros are used in these devices. I won't talk specifics, but
_current_ products on the market are mostly based on very ancient 16-
bit chips. There is a slow migration to ARM but since it takes years
just to get the relevant approvals (after all the engineering is
done), it's a _REAL_ slow migration.

I'm not aware of any company using an MSP430 for a fire control panel;
the MSP430 is a new kid on the block, and anyone investing the time to
design a new panel right now would choose a 32-bit part. However the
MSP430 is widely used in peripheral applications, mostly those powered
by a primary battery, due to its attractive low-power modes.

It all depends on the market. Is it industrial or commercial?

One uses the 683xx family for the main unit and neurons for the field 
devices. Some more intelligent field devices also use the 683xx family.

Another is using ARM and PIC.

I do not know of any regulations that speak to the cpu. For these two 
companies it was decided by power, cost, tools available, longevity of 
parts, package, power usage and on-board options.

Another low end commercial uses an 8 bit micro controller. I forget the 
brand. This system only does digital monitoring.

The previous two are fire and gas.

On Jan 28, 10:42=A0am, - <-> wrote:

> Another low end commercial uses an 8 bit micro controller. I forget the
> brand. This system only does digital monitoring.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's not actually an 8-bit
controller, it's 16 bits. National Semi, right?

> 
> If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's not actually an 8-bit
> controller, it's 16 bits. National Semi, right?


I do not recall but it was an 8-bit. I got a chuckle when I saw the IC. 
I do recall thinking it made sense. The system throughput was very low, 
the price was very low, all the parts of the fire panel are low cost. 

As in lots of cases the "system" manufacture makes the bulk of money on 
the field devices. 

One company, two fire detectors are the cost of one fire panel. They 
average 60 field devices per panel.

Even with a 100% commercial fire panel system you have 1 panel, and 
hundreds of heats, smokes, signals, manual calls, etc. All the profit is 
in the field devices.

One manufacture makes a panel and markets it under many brands along 
with field devices.

One manufacture only sells field devices that are branded by the fire 
panel manufacture and does not make a fire panel.

"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet 
news:90acc9e7-ffa5-4dc3-92e7-e36f636a6eec@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 28, 8:49 am, "a_edwards" <eecod...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> can someone tell me what processor is typically used in this central unit?
> eg 8bit,16 bit, motorola etc?
>
> i have tried contacting manufacturers of such devices but none reply to
> me:(

I'm not surprised. There is no pipeline directly to the engineering
department of such a company. (I work for one). You would be surprised
what micros are used in these devices. I won't talk specifics, but
_current_ products on the market are mostly based on very ancient 16-
bit chips. There is a slow migration to ARM but since it takes years
just to get the relevant approvals (after all the engineering is
done), it's a _REAL_ slow migration.

I'm not aware of any company using an MSP430 for a fire control panel;
the MSP430 is a new kid on the block, and anyone investing the time to
design a new panel right now would choose a 32-bit part. However the
MSP430 is widely used in peripheral applications, mostly those powered
by a primary battery, due to its attractive low-power modes.

==> I agree, I think there is a trend towards ARM9 based control panels 
running Linux.
        The AT91SAM9263 is suitable due to its combination of LCD control 
and Ethernet.
        MSP430's (and of course also PicoPower AVRs) are used in the smoke 
detectors
        and the like.

-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
This is intended to be my personal opinion which may,
or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB