--- In f..., "rtstofer" wrote:
>
> --- In f..., Tommy Thorn wrote:
> >
> > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer architecture. Amazon is your
friend.
> >
> >
> > Tommy
>
> Ordered last week. Should be here soon.
>
> Richard
>
Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative
Approach"?
Norm
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Using DDR RAM
Started by ●October 2, 2009
Reply by ●October 15, 20092009-10-15
Reply by ●October 15, 20092009-10-15
On Thu, 2009-10-15 at 03:30 +0000, normnet2003 wrote:
> Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative
> Approach"?
"Computer Organization & Design: The Hardware/Software Interface"
by the same pair of authors.
Hellwig
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> Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative
> Approach"?
"Computer Organization & Design: The Hardware/Software Interface"
by the same pair of authors.
Hellwig
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Reply by ●October 15, 20092009-10-15
--- In f..., Hellwig Geisse wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2009-10-15 at 03:30 +0000, normnet2003 wrote:
>
> > Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative
> > Approach"?
>
> "Computer Organization & Design: The Hardware/Software Interface"
> by the same pair of authors.
>
> Hellwig
>
If you want to do non-restoring division and you can't seem to 'get it' via the standard texts, there's a nice description in "Introduction To Arithmetic For Digital Systems Designes" by Waser and Flynn (1982). They even have a 'microcode' description that makes it pretty easy to implement in VHDL or Verilog.
I really wanted 2's complement non-restoring division. I bought a veritable library of books on computer arithmetic until I finally got the answer (that I could understand). Pretty expensive divider...
I buy a lot of used books at www.alibris.com And the rest at Amazon...
For a VERY introductory text, I like Computer Architecture (2d edition) by Foster ($3 at Alibris). The book is quite obsolete and talks about stuff like drum memory but there is a discussion of a very elementary computer (BLUE) that nobody would want to buy today. All of the gate level logic is shown and it was a kick to implement in a Spartan 3. Thirty years ago I was thinking about buildling it in TTL but the 8080 came out and I jumped in with the Altair 8800.
There is a table driven assembler ( http://home.comcast.net/~tasm/ ) which makes it trivial (maybe a couple of hours work) to implement a full featured cross-assembler for the processor.
I was thinking about BLUE as a learning exercise and science project for my grandson. In the early '60s you could have been king of the hill with a computer like this. OK, maybe late '50s.
Even the IBM1130 (released in 1965) was available with just 4k and paper tape. The 27 pass Fortran compiler worked just fine (AFAIK). BLUE has similar features but a much reduced instruction set.
Richard
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>
> On Thu, 2009-10-15 at 03:30 +0000, normnet2003 wrote:
>
> > Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative
> > Approach"?
>
> "Computer Organization & Design: The Hardware/Software Interface"
> by the same pair of authors.
>
> Hellwig
>
If you want to do non-restoring division and you can't seem to 'get it' via the standard texts, there's a nice description in "Introduction To Arithmetic For Digital Systems Designes" by Waser and Flynn (1982). They even have a 'microcode' description that makes it pretty easy to implement in VHDL or Verilog.
I really wanted 2's complement non-restoring division. I bought a veritable library of books on computer arithmetic until I finally got the answer (that I could understand). Pretty expensive divider...
I buy a lot of used books at www.alibris.com And the rest at Amazon...
For a VERY introductory text, I like Computer Architecture (2d edition) by Foster ($3 at Alibris). The book is quite obsolete and talks about stuff like drum memory but there is a discussion of a very elementary computer (BLUE) that nobody would want to buy today. All of the gate level logic is shown and it was a kick to implement in a Spartan 3. Thirty years ago I was thinking about buildling it in TTL but the 8080 came out and I jumped in with the Altair 8800.
There is a table driven assembler ( http://home.comcast.net/~tasm/ ) which makes it trivial (maybe a couple of hours work) to implement a full featured cross-assembler for the processor.
I was thinking about BLUE as a learning exercise and science project for my grandson. In the early '60s you could have been king of the hill with a computer like this. OK, maybe late '50s.
Even the IBM1130 (released in 1965) was available with just 4k and paper tape. The 27 pass Fortran compiler worked just fine (AFAIK). BLUE has similar features but a much reduced instruction set.
Richard
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Reply by ●October 16, 20092009-10-16
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009, rtstofer wrote:
>
8<--snip
>
> For a VERY introductory text, I like Computer Architecture (2d edition)
> by Foster ($3 at Alibris). The book is quite obsolete and talks about
> stuff like drum memory but there is a discussion of a very elementary
> computer (BLUE) that nobody would want to buy today. All of the gate
> level logic is shown and it was a kick to implement in a Spartan 3.
> Thirty years ago I was thinking about buildling it in TTL but the 8080
> came out and I jumped in with the Altair 8800.
>
Yes, this one is worth tracking down, it's a good introduction. BLUE also
bears more than a passing resemblance to the Apollo Guidance Computer.
Another introductory text which has some good examples is Carpinelli's
'Computer Systems Organization and Architecture' but it's not particularly
cheap, even second hand. The sections on arithmetic and cache are good
with RTL descriptions and schematics.
Also secondhand and possibly possibly worth a look is Feldman &
Retter's 1994 "Computer Architecture, A designer's text based on a generic
RISC" ($6)
Nigel G
--
Nigel Gunton, Senior lecturer,
Department of Design & Engineering,
Bristol Institute of Technology , UWE, Bristol, BS16 1QY
Phone : +44/0 117 32 83630 Fax : +44/0 117 32 83002
This email was independently scanned for viruses by McAfee anti-virus software and none were found
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>
8<--snip
>
> For a VERY introductory text, I like Computer Architecture (2d edition)
> by Foster ($3 at Alibris). The book is quite obsolete and talks about
> stuff like drum memory but there is a discussion of a very elementary
> computer (BLUE) that nobody would want to buy today. All of the gate
> level logic is shown and it was a kick to implement in a Spartan 3.
> Thirty years ago I was thinking about buildling it in TTL but the 8080
> came out and I jumped in with the Altair 8800.
>
Yes, this one is worth tracking down, it's a good introduction. BLUE also
bears more than a passing resemblance to the Apollo Guidance Computer.
Another introductory text which has some good examples is Carpinelli's
'Computer Systems Organization and Architecture' but it's not particularly
cheap, even second hand. The sections on arithmetic and cache are good
with RTL descriptions and schematics.
Also secondhand and possibly possibly worth a look is Feldman &
Retter's 1994 "Computer Architecture, A designer's text based on a generic
RISC" ($6)
Nigel G
--
Nigel Gunton, Senior lecturer,
Department of Design & Engineering,
Bristol Institute of Technology , UWE, Bristol, BS16 1QY
Phone : +44/0 117 32 83630 Fax : +44/0 117 32 83002
This email was independently scanned for viruses by McAfee anti-virus software and none were found
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Reply by ●October 16, 20092009-10-16
--- In f..., Nigel.Gunton@... wrote:
> Yes, this one is worth tracking down, it's a good introduction. BLUE also
> bears more than a passing resemblance to the Apollo Guidance Computer.
>
I bought a CD on eBay that documents the AGC. There is at least one project on the Internet that implements a version of it but it's HUGE (physically).
I have been thinking about implementing a version in an FPGA. The problem is what to actually DO with it. It's not like I have a bunch of retro-rockets out in the garage. Still, it would be a good addition to the NASA Space Shuttle "Liftoff" CD/game.
The control panel is pretty easy. A few 7 segment displays and a keypad.
> Another introductory text which has some good examples is Carpinelli's
> 'Computer Systems Organization and Architecture' but it's not particularly
> cheap, even second hand. The sections on arithmetic and cache are good
> with RTL descriptions and schematics.
Alibris has copies from $25 I look forward to reading it!
>
> Also secondhand and possibly possibly worth a look is Feldman &
> Retter's 1994 "Computer Architecture, A designer's text based on a generic
> RISC" ($6)
Again, this is something I will enjoy reading.
I really appreciate all of the recommendations for my library but it's clearly gotten out of hand. I still have my original "8080 Microcomputer Systems User's Manual" from 1975. And everything in between... Some of the books are classics, others are just old. The problem is separating them.
Richard
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
> Yes, this one is worth tracking down, it's a good introduction. BLUE also
> bears more than a passing resemblance to the Apollo Guidance Computer.
>
I bought a CD on eBay that documents the AGC. There is at least one project on the Internet that implements a version of it but it's HUGE (physically).
I have been thinking about implementing a version in an FPGA. The problem is what to actually DO with it. It's not like I have a bunch of retro-rockets out in the garage. Still, it would be a good addition to the NASA Space Shuttle "Liftoff" CD/game.
The control panel is pretty easy. A few 7 segment displays and a keypad.
> Another introductory text which has some good examples is Carpinelli's
> 'Computer Systems Organization and Architecture' but it's not particularly
> cheap, even second hand. The sections on arithmetic and cache are good
> with RTL descriptions and schematics.
Alibris has copies from $25 I look forward to reading it!
>
> Also secondhand and possibly possibly worth a look is Feldman &
> Retter's 1994 "Computer Architecture, A designer's text based on a generic
> RISC" ($6)
Again, this is something I will enjoy reading.
I really appreciate all of the recommendations for my library but it's clearly gotten out of hand. I still have my original "8080 Microcomputer Systems User's Manual" from 1975. And everything in between... Some of the books are classics, others are just old. The problem is separating them.
Richard
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
Reply by ●October 17, 20092009-10-17
--- On Wed, 10/14/09, normnet2003 wrote:
> From: normnet2003
> Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > >
> > > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer
> architecture. Amazon is your friend.
>
> Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A
> Quantitative Approach"?
I don't understand. The book I cited, http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Quantitative-Approach-4th/dp/0123704901/ref=dp_ob_image_bk, _is_ "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach".
One of the things that is appreciable about this book is that it's kept reasonable well up to date, though a lot of material from the 3rd ed was dropped in the 4th. I have both and look to both for coverage on topics.
A lot of other books have been mentioned in this thread. I'm sure they are fine too. I also have "classic" text and some that are merely "old", but for state of the art I haven't found anything better than the above.
What happened to the original topic, on DDR SDRAM controllers? So far the only I've heard of is the one from OpenCores.
Tommy
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> From: normnet2003
> Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > >
> > > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer
> architecture. Amazon is your friend.
>
> Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A
> Quantitative Approach"?
I don't understand. The book I cited, http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Quantitative-Approach-4th/dp/0123704901/ref=dp_ob_image_bk, _is_ "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach".
One of the things that is appreciable about this book is that it's kept reasonable well up to date, though a lot of material from the 3rd ed was dropped in the 4th. I have both and look to both for coverage on topics.
A lot of other books have been mentioned in this thread. I'm sure they are fine too. I also have "classic" text and some that are merely "old", but for state of the art I haven't found anything better than the above.
What happened to the original topic, on DDR SDRAM controllers? So far the only I've heard of is the one from OpenCores.
Tommy
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Reply by ●October 17, 20092009-10-17
--- In f..., Tommy Thorn wrote:
>
> --- On Wed, 10/14/09, normnet2003 wrote:
> > From: normnet2003
> > Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer
> > architecture. Amazon is your friend.
> >
> > Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A
> > Quantitative Approach"?
>
> I don't understand. The book I cited, http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Quantitative-Approach-4th/dp/0123704901/ref=dp_ob_image_bk, _is_ "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach".
>
> One of the things that is appreciable about this book is that it's kept reasonable well up to date, though a lot of material from the 3rd ed was dropped in the 4th. I have both and look to both for coverage on topics.
>
> A lot of other books have been mentioned in this thread. I'm sure they are fine too. I also have "classic" text and some that are merely "old", but for state of the art I haven't found anything better than the above.
> What happened to the original topic, on DDR SDRAM controllers? So far the only I've heard of is the one from OpenCores.
>
> Tommy
>
I only asked because of several reviews like:
"This book has a lot of information, especially with the appendices on CD and in the back of the book. If you are new to Architecture, I wouldn't recommend it. Get a simpler book...maybe by the same authors, just the "prerequisite" for this one."
Norm
To post a message, send it to: f...
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>
> --- On Wed, 10/14/09, normnet2003 wrote:
> > From: normnet2003
> > Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer
> > architecture. Amazon is your friend.
> >
> > Is their a prep book for before "Computer Architecture: A
> > Quantitative Approach"?
>
> I don't understand. The book I cited, http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Architecture-Quantitative-Approach-4th/dp/0123704901/ref=dp_ob_image_bk, _is_ "Computer Architecture: A Quantitative Approach".
>
> One of the things that is appreciable about this book is that it's kept reasonable well up to date, though a lot of material from the 3rd ed was dropped in the 4th. I have both and look to both for coverage on topics.
>
> A lot of other books have been mentioned in this thread. I'm sure they are fine too. I also have "classic" text and some that are merely "old", but for state of the art I haven't found anything better than the above.
> What happened to the original topic, on DDR SDRAM controllers? So far the only I've heard of is the one from OpenCores.
>
> Tommy
>
I only asked because of several reviews like:
"This book has a lot of information, especially with the appendices on CD and in the back of the book. If you are new to Architecture, I wouldn't recommend it. Get a simpler book...maybe by the same authors, just the "prerequisite" for this one."
Norm
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Reply by ●October 17, 20092009-10-17
Norm asked:
I only asked because of several reviews like:
"This book has a lot of information, especially with the appendices on CD
and in the back of the book. If you are new to Architecture, I wouldn't
recommend it. Get a simpler book...maybe by the same authors, just the
"prerequisite" for this one."
Norm
In the past I have also recommended Computer Organization by P&H e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Organization-Design-Fourth-Architecture/dp/01
23744938 as a first book in computer architecture, particularly for
self-study. At least compared to CA:AQA, it offers a more gentle
introduction, e.g. to the details in the design of a pipelined RISC
processor.
Jan.
To post a message, send it to: f...
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I only asked because of several reviews like:
"This book has a lot of information, especially with the appendices on CD
and in the back of the book. If you are new to Architecture, I wouldn't
recommend it. Get a simpler book...maybe by the same authors, just the
"prerequisite" for this one."
Norm
In the past I have also recommended Computer Organization by P&H e.g.
http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Organization-Design-Fourth-Architecture/dp/01
23744938 as a first book in computer architecture, particularly for
self-study. At least compared to CA:AQA, it offers a more gentle
introduction, e.g. to the details in the design of a pipelined RISC
processor.
Jan.
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
Reply by ●October 18, 20092009-10-18
Hi Tommy,
I don't really like using my Visa card on the internet. I'm always
worried about key loggers. I do run internet security software, but I'm
still worried about it.
I can get the book through the RMIT University Bookshop here in
Melbourne Australia, but I have a local bookshop that supports a number
of community activities that I am involved with, so I prefer to buy
books through them, even though they are a little more expensive. Buying
books from Amazon, you have to factor in exchange rates and postage,
which makes them a bit more expensive than the prices listed on the web.
The Least Recently Used algorithm is not hard to understand. I just
could not match up the letters in the acronym although I should have
thought about it before posting. I have done a paper design on a
associative cache using LRU some years ago. It used a shift register for
the address and a multiplexer which routed the address back to the head
of the FIFO every time a hit was detected. Cache addresses that fell out
the end of the shift register were written back to SDRAM if they were
dirty. As I think you mentioned, you needed to maintain a separate RAM
for each of the cache lines to flag if the cache has been written to.
Writing a flag to each individual word obviously does not help you
determine if the cache line is dirty. I also included a unique token for
each address in the associative cache to index the tag (?) cache. The
token is recycled if the cache entry is written back to memory.
John.
Tommy Thorn wrote:
> The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer architecture. Amazon is your friend.
> Tommy
>
>
--
http://www.johnkent.com.au
http://members.optusnet.com.au/jekent
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
I don't really like using my Visa card on the internet. I'm always
worried about key loggers. I do run internet security software, but I'm
still worried about it.
I can get the book through the RMIT University Bookshop here in
Melbourne Australia, but I have a local bookshop that supports a number
of community activities that I am involved with, so I prefer to buy
books through them, even though they are a little more expensive. Buying
books from Amazon, you have to factor in exchange rates and postage,
which makes them a bit more expensive than the prices listed on the web.
The Least Recently Used algorithm is not hard to understand. I just
could not match up the letters in the acronym although I should have
thought about it before posting. I have done a paper design on a
associative cache using LRU some years ago. It used a shift register for
the address and a multiplexer which routed the address back to the head
of the FIFO every time a hit was detected. Cache addresses that fell out
the end of the shift register were written back to SDRAM if they were
dirty. As I think you mentioned, you needed to maintain a separate RAM
for each of the cache lines to flag if the cache has been written to.
Writing a flag to each individual word obviously does not help you
determine if the cache line is dirty. I also included a unique token for
each address in the associative cache to index the tag (?) cache. The
token is recycled if the cache entry is written back to memory.
John.
Tommy Thorn wrote:
> The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer architecture. Amazon is your friend.
> Tommy
>
>
--
http://www.johnkent.com.au
http://members.optusnet.com.au/jekent
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
Reply by ●October 18, 20092009-10-18
With the australian dollar so strong right now, it has never been a
better time to buy from amazon.....
Brett Wildermoth BEng (ME) MPhil
Lecturer - Griffith School of Engineering
Email: B...@griffith.edu.au
On 18/10/2009, at 1:42 PM, John Kent wrote:
> Hi Tommy,
>
> I don't really like using my Visa card on the internet. I'm always
> worried about key loggers. I do run internet security software, but
> I'm
> still worried about it.
>
> I can get the book through the RMIT University Bookshop here in
> Melbourne Australia, but I have a local bookshop that supports a
> number
> of community activities that I am involved with, so I prefer to buy
> books through them, even though they are a little more expensive.
> Buying
> books from Amazon, you have to factor in exchange rates and postage,
> which makes them a bit more expensive than the prices listed on the
> web.
>
> The Least Recently Used algorithm is not hard to understand. I just
> could not match up the letters in the acronym although I should have
> thought about it before posting. I have done a paper design on a
> associative cache using LRU some years ago. It used a shift register
> for
> the address and a multiplexer which routed the address back to the
> head
> of the FIFO every time a hit was detected. Cache addresses that fell
> out
> the end of the shift register were written back to SDRAM if they were
> dirty. As I think you mentioned, you needed to maintain a separate RAM
> for each of the cache lines to flag if the cache has been written to.
> Writing a flag to each individual word obviously does not help you
> determine if the cache line is dirty. I also included a unique token
> for
> each address in the associative cache to index the tag (?) cache. The
> token is recycled if the cache entry is written back to memory.
>
> John.
>
> Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer architecture. Amazon
> is your friend.
> >
> >
> > Tommy
> >
> > --
> http://www.johnkent.com.au
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/jekent
>
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
better time to buy from amazon.....
Brett Wildermoth BEng (ME) MPhil
Lecturer - Griffith School of Engineering
Email: B...@griffith.edu.au
On 18/10/2009, at 1:42 PM, John Kent wrote:
> Hi Tommy,
>
> I don't really like using my Visa card on the internet. I'm always
> worried about key loggers. I do run internet security software, but
> I'm
> still worried about it.
>
> I can get the book through the RMIT University Bookshop here in
> Melbourne Australia, but I have a local bookshop that supports a
> number
> of community activities that I am involved with, so I prefer to buy
> books through them, even though they are a little more expensive.
> Buying
> books from Amazon, you have to factor in exchange rates and postage,
> which makes them a bit more expensive than the prices listed on the
> web.
>
> The Least Recently Used algorithm is not hard to understand. I just
> could not match up the letters in the acronym although I should have
> thought about it before posting. I have done a paper design on a
> associative cache using LRU some years ago. It used a shift register
> for
> the address and a multiplexer which routed the address back to the
> head
> of the FIFO every time a hit was detected. Cache addresses that fell
> out
> the end of the shift register were written back to SDRAM if they were
> dirty. As I think you mentioned, you needed to maintain a separate RAM
> for each of the cache lines to flag if the cache has been written to.
> Writing a flag to each individual word obviously does not help you
> determine if the cache line is dirty. I also included a unique token
> for
> each address in the associative cache to index the tag (?) cache. The
> token is recycled if the cache entry is written back to memory.
>
> John.
>
> Tommy Thorn wrote:
> > The H&P is considered the "bible" of computer architecture. Amazon
> is your friend.
> >
> >
> > Tommy
> >
> > --
> http://www.johnkent.com.au
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/jekent
>
To post a message, send it to: f...
To unsubscribe, send a blank message to: f...
