Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devi ces

Started by Larsen, Morten ActeNO June 4, 2004
RE: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devices

Rgd. Atmel AT91 packaging -

there's a new selection guide (SAM - "Smart ARM Microcontroller")
on the AT91 website (http://at91.com) showing several new,
small devices (32-356KB internal Flash).
The smallest one (AT91SAM7S32) comes in a LQFP48(=TQFP48?) package.
That is, on par w. Phillips - so they *are* probably watching ...;-)

PS: what "Smart" stands for is not yet revealed,
but my guess is that it will be possible to program the
Flash through the USB client port (like on their bigger ARM9 - AT91RM9200).
Nifty ...

PS,PS: just curious - could you give a "Real-Worl" example
of an appliction for an 8-pin ARM7, where a 8-bit MCU wouldn't do??

-Morten


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Weingart [mailto:l...@pentax.boerde.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:54 AM
> To: l...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog
> devices
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 11:13:57PM -0000, lpc2100_fan wrote:
> > btw. I am also convinced that Philips will come out with
> ARM9 devices
> > but I doubt they will be too similar to the Atmel devices.
>
> I see one difference: Atmel parts are all in big and
> expensive (considering
> PCB and soldering) casings (BGA). The smallest Atmel part is in
> a TQFP100, whereas the smallest Philips one is a LQFP48.
> I hope we will see even smaller ARM's (probably 20 pins devices?).
> A 8-pin ARM7 would also be useful.
>
> M.
>
>
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>




An Engineer's Guide to the LPC2100 Series

RE: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devices
>PS,PS: just curious - could you give a "Real-Worl" example 
>of an appliction for an 8-pin ARM7, where a 8-bit MCU wouldn't do??
 
Switch mode power supply or equvivalent ...
 
regards
/l madsen
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Larsen, Morten ActeNO [mailto:m...@acte.no]
Sendt: 4. juni 2004 12:36
Til: 'l...@yahoogroups.com'
Emne: RE: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devices

Rgd. Atmel AT91 packaging -

there's a new selection guide (SAM - "Smart ARM Microcontroller")
on the AT91 website (http://at91.com) showing several new,
small devices (32-356KB internal Flash).
The smallest one (AT91SAM7S32) comes in a LQFP48(=TQFP48?) package.
That is, on par w. Phillips - so they *are* probably watching ...;-)

PS: what "Smart" stands for is not yet revealed,
but my guess is that it will be possible to program the
Flash through the USB client port (like on their bigger ARM9 - AT91RM9200).
Nifty ...

PS,PS: just curious - could you give a "Real-Worl" example
of an appliction for an 8-pin ARM7, where a 8-bit MCU wouldn't do??

-Morten


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Weingart [mailto:l...@pentax.boerde.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:54 AM
> To: l...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog
> devices
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 11:13:57PM -0000, lpc2100_fan wrote:
> > btw. I am also convinced that Philips will come out with
> ARM9 devices
> > but I doubt they will be too similar to the Atmel devices.
>
> I see one difference: Atmel parts are all in big and
> expensive (considering
> PCB and soldering) casings (BGA). The smallest Atmel part is in
> a TQFP100, whereas the smallest Philips one is a LQFP48.
> I hope we will see even smaller ARM's (probably 20 pins devices?).
> A 8-pin ARM7 would also be useful.
>
> M.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/dN_tlB/TM
> --------------------------
> ------~->
>

>

>

RE: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devices
Well,
 
I'll give it a shot myself;
 
"super-simple" MP3 player!
1) needs at least 128KB internal flash (can't connect to external MMC most likely)
2) needs USB client interface  that's 2 pins minimum (integrated transceiver) - for download from PC/MAC
3) needs SPI interface or I2S - that's another 3 pins minimum
    (requirements depend on whether you use a VS1001 or similar Micronas-type fully integrated decoder+DAC+lineout-amp,
     or just a audio-DAC w.line-amp etc.) Typically these have separate data(audio) and control i/f, so it won't work:-(
   That was another 3 pins - now we don't have any more!:-(
   (need Vcc/GND and Reset - probably ...;-)
4) forget about ETM or JTAG - debug will be by listening (probably an awkward process ...;-)
 
Rather far-fetched, but it's the best I can do:-)
 
PS: I won't accept any low-bandwidth, low processing-requirements
type of application (example: reading tempsensor, sending value out the UART).
Those are exactly what 8-bitters are for!
 
-Morten
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Larsen, Morten ActeNO [mailto:m...@acte.no]
Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 12:36 PM
To: 'l...@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog devi ces

Rgd. Atmel AT91 packaging -

there's a new selection guide (SAM - "Smart ARM Microcontroller")
on the AT91 website (http://at91.com) showing several new,
small devices (32-356KB internal Flash).
The smallest one (AT91SAM7S32) comes in a LQFP48(=TQFP48?) package.
That is, on par w. Phillips - so they *are* probably watching ...;-)

PS: what "Smart" stands for is not yet revealed,
but my guess is that it will be possible to program the
Flash through the USB client port (like on their bigger ARM9 - AT91RM9200).
Nifty ...

PS,PS: just curious - could you give a "Real-Worl" example
of an appliction for an 8-pin ARM7, where a 8-bit MCU wouldn't do??

-Morten


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Weingart [mailto:l...@pentax.boerde.de]
> Sent: Friday, June 04, 2004 7:54 AM
> To: l...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: interesting info from Atmel / STM / Analog
> devices
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 03, 2004 at 11:13:57PM -0000, lpc2100_fan wrote:
> > btw. I am also convinced that Philips will come out with
> ARM9 devices
> > but I doubt they will be too similar to the Atmel devices.
>
> I see one difference: Atmel parts are all in big and
> expensive (considering
> PCB and soldering) casings (BGA). The smallest Atmel part is in
> a TQFP100, whereas the smallest Philips one is a LQFP48.
> I hope we will see even smaller ARM's (probably 20 pins devices?).
> A 8-pin ARM7 would also be useful.
>
> M.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/dN_tlB/TM
> --------------------------
> ------~->
>

>

>


On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 12:36:08PM +0200, Larsen, Morten ActeNO wrote:
>
> PS,PS: just curious - could you give a "Real-Worl" example
> of an appliction for an 8-pin ARM7, where a 8-bit MCU wouldn't do??

The world goes serial. Well of course a 64pin device is more multipurpose
(and sells in larger quantities), so probably no vendor will see a reason to
provide smaller packages just for some applications. But there are many
applications, e.g. motor-subcontrollers (controller integrated in the motor
and communicate as I2C-Slave device), of course this could be solved with a
8bit micro in most cases. A AD converter with integrated signal processing
is more cpu intensive. Today there are sensors with integrated EEPROM for
parameter storage available. But the signal is still analog. Replace te 8
pin EEPROM by a 8 pin controller with AD and serial interface you have
powerful sensors with integrated signal preprocessing. That devices need
probably much RAM for the data aquisition. (well of course you can do this
at low speed with a 8bit micro too, but high speed applications are
also possible).

When the devices are cheap enough you can also replace complicated hardware
just by software. In this case speed matters. With a 8bit CPU you can
probably just work up to 100kHz with a 100MHz ARM you get 10-50 times faster.
(or use a FPGA).

In short: in most cases I would use them as subcontrollers - for timecritical
tasks that let no time left in the main controller and/or for machanical
simplification. A important point is, that these 8pin micros should
have a very fast serial interface (at least I2C-slave and SPI, but SPI
need much pins) to get the data with high speed out.

Today a ARM7 sound overkill, but tomorrow we will see ARM's everywhere.
Btw. I also miss small ("serial") FPGA's.

M.



On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 12:55:16PM +0200, Larsen, Morten ActeNO wrote:

Another idea for a 8 pin ARM: the MSP430 is able to decode and encode DTMF
(but timing is near the limit). The ARM7 is good for many applications that
need filtering, FFT's, and other DSP functions. For a simple DTMF decoder I
only need 2 pins. A small software radio (demodulation of IF in software)
could also work with 4 pins (IF-in, speaker-out, some keys). (e.g. DRM or DAB
but I have no idea, what power is needed to decode DRM).

Matthias




--- In , Matthias Weingart <lpc2000@p...>
wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 04, 2004 at 12:55:16PM +0200, Larsen, Morten ActeNO
wrote:
>
> Another idea for a 8 pin ARM: the MSP430 is able to decode and
encode DTMF
> (but timing is near the limit). The ARM7 is good for many
applications that
> need filtering, FFT's, and other DSP functions. For a simple DTMF
decoder I
> only need 2 pins. A small software radio (demodulation of IF in
software)
> could also work with 4 pins (IF-in, speaker-out, some keys). (e.g.
DRM or DAB
> but I have no idea, what power is needed to decode DRM).

to use $10 ARM part to replace $1 DTMF decoder c'mon ;) Tsvetan
---
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