We are looking for a cheaper (but good) alternative to the IAR
Embedded Workbench for the MSP430. Any suggestions?
TIA
Alternative to IAR?
Started by ●March 9, 2004
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
Hi,
Compiler links are on the Links part of the group. However,
CrossWorks - www.rowley.co.uk
Quadravox - www.quadravox.com
ImageCraft - www.imagecraft.com/software
HI-TECH - www.htsoft.com
I'm sure you'll find one that fits.
--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, and (soon) Atmel AVR processors
Compiler links are on the Links part of the group. However,
CrossWorks - www.rowley.co.uk
Quadravox - www.quadravox.com
ImageCraft - www.imagecraft.com/software
HI-TECH - www.htsoft.com
I'm sure you'll find one that fits.
--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430, ARM, and (soon) Atmel AVR processors
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
Did you come to the right place to ask this question!
The list of 3-rd party vendors is now posted by TI on their web site
at:
http://focus.ti.com/mcu/docs/generalcontent.tsp?
familyId42&templateIdR46&navigationId481&path=templatedata/cm/m
cugen/data/msp430_3p_swtools
(rolls off the tongue).
Most vendors offer a 30 day, full featured , trial version. Some
don't even ask to know who you are to download their demo.
Michel
The list of 3-rd party vendors is now posted by TI on their web site
at:
http://focus.ti.com/mcu/docs/generalcontent.tsp?
familyId42&templateIdR46&navigationId481&path=templatedata/cm/m
cugen/data/msp430_3p_swtools
(rolls off the tongue).
Most vendors offer a 30 day, full featured , trial version. Some
don't even ask to know who you are to download their demo.
Michel
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full version for $150.
Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
--
Ralph Hilton
Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
--
Ralph Hilton
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
If Michel is too modest to promote his own compiler, I will certainly do it
for him.
I have been working with it for 4 straight days in a row, 8AM to 11PM,
and it performs like a dream.
Good code, no odd problems ...
www.quadravox.com
Kent
for him.
I have been working with it for 4 straight days in a row, 8AM to 11PM,
and it performs like a dream.
Good code, no odd problems ...
www.quadravox.com
Kent
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
Ralph,
> I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full version for $150.
> Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
No doubting it's good. Also no doubting it's not a full C
compiler--it's missing a bunch of features so it can't be billed as an
ANSI C compiler. For instance it can't compile some simple ANSI C:
typedef void (*fn_t)(void);
fn_t fns[128];
Now. every MSP430 compiler can compile this. So, if arrays of function
pointers aren't important to you, by all means, purchase a subset.
Putting that aside, does it debug over JTAG, for instance? Well no, it
doesn't, it leaves that to AVR Studio, whereas the MSP430 compilers
actually manage to debug the code themselves.
Also, it's a question of economics. You want a cheap compiler?
Richard's will fit you budget at $199. However, at about $900, even we
have a nice big customer base. HP-Infotec seems to be a one-man affair,
whereas I know that Richard's and my company are a little larger than
that, but both are smaller than IAR and are both profitable.
I don't consider a $900/495 compiler at all expensive, it's pretty good
value for money. I've purchased compilers much more expensive than this
from Keil and IAR, and gee, even Visual C++ is more expensive than $150
and that's truly mass market.
All in all, MSP430 compilers are not expensive and it's guaranteed that
you'll find one to fit your budget or needs, and even IAR is a popular
choice.
-- Paul.
> I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full version for $150.
> Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
No doubting it's good. Also no doubting it's not a full C
compiler--it's missing a bunch of features so it can't be billed as an
ANSI C compiler. For instance it can't compile some simple ANSI C:
typedef void (*fn_t)(void);
fn_t fns[128];
Now. every MSP430 compiler can compile this. So, if arrays of function
pointers aren't important to you, by all means, purchase a subset.
Putting that aside, does it debug over JTAG, for instance? Well no, it
doesn't, it leaves that to AVR Studio, whereas the MSP430 compilers
actually manage to debug the code themselves.
Also, it's a question of economics. You want a cheap compiler?
Richard's will fit you budget at $199. However, at about $900, even we
have a nice big customer base. HP-Infotec seems to be a one-man affair,
whereas I know that Richard's and my company are a little larger than
that, but both are smaller than IAR and are both profitable.
I don't consider a $900/495 compiler at all expensive, it's pretty good
value for money. I've purchased compilers much more expensive than this
from Keil and IAR, and gee, even Visual C++ is more expensive than $150
and that's truly mass market.
All in all, MSP430 compilers are not expensive and it's guaranteed that
you'll find one to fit your budget or needs, and even IAR is a popular
choice.
-- Paul.
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
>> I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full
version for $150. Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
<<
Aye, Codevision really is tremendous VFM and Pavel is a star the speed he gets
bugs fixed!
I think it's tremendous that there's a such a wide range of compilers
available for the MSP430 now (rather than just IAR) and at least all the new
ones are affordable if not as cheap as Codevision.
I'm especially pleased that there's a Linux IDE available as well now. :-)
Aye, Codevision really is tremendous VFM and Pavel is a star the speed he gets
bugs fixed!
I think it's tremendous that there's a such a wide range of compilers
available for the MSP430 now (rather than just IAR) and at least all the new
ones are affordable if not as cheap as Codevision.
I'm especially pleased that there's a Linux IDE available as well now. :-)
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
Hi
I think the core of this issue is the user.
As a hobbyist/dabbler... the prices are tend to make you wince.
But for even a modest business, where time is money, the C compilers
mentioned below are as cheap as chips(potato chips!).
Lance
ICM
I think the core of this issue is the user.
As a hobbyist/dabbler... the prices are tend to make you wince.
But for even a modest business, where time is money, the C compilers
mentioned below are as cheap as chips(potato chips!).
Lance
ICM
Reply by ●March 9, 20042004-03-09
On Tue, Mar 09, 2004 at 11:16:08PM +0100, Ralph Hilton wrote:
> I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full version for $150.
> Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
Different vendors target different sectors of the market. Every
chip market is segmented into, broadly, three sectors;
The bottom end is comprised of students, hobbyists and very
small businesses - think "2 guys in a garage". These customers
have a surplus of time and a shortage of cash. They want the
cheapest possible tools, and are prepared to put in more work
if necessary to work with low-cost tools. This is the market
for the sub-$200 tools.
The top end of the market are the large corporates. They are
almost completely price-insensitive, but want the reassurance
of dealing with large, established vendors who (nominally)
provide a high level of support. Tools aimed at this
market range into the many thousands. Vendors targeting
this market are e.g. Green Hills and Wind River.
In between is everybody else - this includes small to medium
companies who are concerned about price, but are prepared to pay
more than the low-end guys to get solid, reliable
tools with good support.
Each vendor makes a choice about where they want to position
their tools into this spectrum of customers. That's not to
say that just because one tool is cheaper than another that
it's not as good, but it's inevitable that the level of
support is better with the higher priced tools - you simply
can't sell something for $100 and spend a lot of time
supporting it.
The cheap tools are also typically updated on a more frequent
basis - so you probably get quick bug fixes, but with less
thorough pre-release testing also the chance of more bugs
being introduced.
There are a lot of other factors, but mostly it's just
about what business model the vendor has chosen to follow.
Cheers, Clyde
--
Clyde Stubbs | HI-TECH Software
> I got a good AVR C compiler (Codevision) full version for $150.
> Why are the MSP430 compilers relatively so expensive?
Different vendors target different sectors of the market. Every
chip market is segmented into, broadly, three sectors;
The bottom end is comprised of students, hobbyists and very
small businesses - think "2 guys in a garage". These customers
have a surplus of time and a shortage of cash. They want the
cheapest possible tools, and are prepared to put in more work
if necessary to work with low-cost tools. This is the market
for the sub-$200 tools.
The top end of the market are the large corporates. They are
almost completely price-insensitive, but want the reassurance
of dealing with large, established vendors who (nominally)
provide a high level of support. Tools aimed at this
market range into the many thousands. Vendors targeting
this market are e.g. Green Hills and Wind River.
In between is everybody else - this includes small to medium
companies who are concerned about price, but are prepared to pay
more than the low-end guys to get solid, reliable
tools with good support.
Each vendor makes a choice about where they want to position
their tools into this spectrum of customers. That's not to
say that just because one tool is cheaper than another that
it's not as good, but it's inevitable that the level of
support is better with the higher priced tools - you simply
can't sell something for $100 and spend a lot of time
supporting it.
The cheap tools are also typically updated on a more frequent
basis - so you probably get quick bug fixes, but with less
thorough pre-release testing also the chance of more bugs
being introduced.
There are a lot of other factors, but mostly it's just
about what business model the vendor has chosen to follow.
Cheers, Clyde
--
Clyde Stubbs | HI-TECH Software