"Production" ICSP Programmer

Started by Dave Moore August 6, 2004
Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production" programmers for
PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web pages, found
a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm looking
for something that the young technician can use to program boards with
already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.) Programming
would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50 units
today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.") The
actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd be cool if
it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.

I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with opinions on these
programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...

Thanks.

-- Dave




You might check out the Warp 13a
(http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/warp-13a.htm) It will do ICSP
and it has ZIF sockets.

I have it and I like it but I haven't used it for PIC18 devices. --- In , "Dave Moore" <dmoore@q...> wrote:
> Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production"
programmers for
> PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web
pages, found
> a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm
looking
> for something that the young technician can use to program boards
with
> already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.)
Programming
> would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50
units
> today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.")
The
> actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd
be cool if
> it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.
>
> I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with
opinions on these
> programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- Dave





IIRC a "production programmer" is able to verify the chip at various
supply voltages while a "development programmer" like the warp-13a is
not. (Don't get me wrong, I use a Warp-13a, am very happy with it,
and have programmed 18F452, 18F1320, and 18LF2320 parts with it.)

I seem to recall that Wouter's (www.voti.nl) original Wisp was a
production programmer but it looks like his newer Wisp628 is not.
Then again, perhaps you don't really mean that you need a production
programmer in the sense that Microchip destinguishes between
"production" and "development" programmers. --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
>
> You might check out the Warp 13a
> (http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/warp-13a.htm) It will do ICSP
> and it has ZIF sockets.
>
> I have it and I like it but I haven't used it for PIC18 devices. > --- In , "Dave Moore" <dmoore@q...> wrote:
> > Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production"
> programmers for
> > PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web
> pages, found
> > a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm
> looking
> > for something that the young technician can use to program boards
> with
> > already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.)
> Programming
> > would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50
> units
> > today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.")
> The
> > actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd
> be cool if
> > it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.
> >
> > I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with
> opinions on these
> > programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -- Dave





Ya, "production" means different things to different people. I'm going to
define "production" a little more on the easy-to-use side vs. that supply
voltage definition.

Thanks for the comments.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Lee [mailto:]
> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 1:37 PM
> To:
> Subject: [piclist] Re: "Production" ICSP Programmer
>
> IIRC a "production programmer" is able to verify the chip at
> various supply voltages while a "development programmer" like
> the warp-13a is not. (Don't get me wrong, I use a Warp-13a,
> am very happy with it, and have programmed 18F452, 18F1320,
> and 18LF2320 parts with it.)
>
> I seem to recall that Wouter's (www.voti.nl) original Wisp
> was a production programmer but it looks like his newer
> Wisp628 is not.
> Then again, perhaps you don't really mean that you need a
> production programmer in the sense that Microchip
> destinguishes between "production" and "development" programmers. > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> >
> > You might check out the Warp 13a
> > (http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/warp-13a.htm) It will
> do ICSP and
> > it has ZIF sockets.
> >
> > I have it and I like it but I haven't used it for PIC18 devices.
> >
> >
> > --- In , "Dave Moore" <dmoore@q...> wrote:
> > > Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production"
> > programmers for
> > > PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web
> > pages, found
> > > a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm
> > looking
> > > for something that the young technician can use to program boards
> > with
> > > already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.)
> > Programming
> > > would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50
> > units
> > > today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.")
> > The
> > > actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd
> > be cool if
> > > it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.
> > >
> > > I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with
> > opinions on these
> > > programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> > > -- Dave >
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> I seem to recall that Wouter's (www.voti.nl) original Wisp was a
> production programmer but it looks like his newer Wisp628 is not.

Totally correct. But the WISP supports only a few older flash PICs,
certainly not the 18F's.

IMHO the production-prototype distinctions is a non-issue with
flash-chips.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products


> Ya, "production" means different things to different people.
> I'm going to
> define "production" a little more on the easy-to-use side vs.
> that supply
> voltage definition.

FYI a customer bought a few batches of Wisp628's from me, connected them
to 32-port serial cards, and thus created a few PC-controlled
gang-programmers. IIRC he simply ran 32 copies of XWISP on each PC in
parallel without significant speed degradation. You could consider a
similar solution, with Wisp628's or other programmers (Olin's design,
Warp, etc).

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products


I'm happy with my Quick-writer by Tech-tools and the support people.
Technically not a production programmer because it does not verify at a
set minimum voltage.

Click to open the program file you want(all parameters are saved in
matching config file).
Connect to the board.
Press F4.

One of my partners does it on his own, if you knew him, you would
appreciate this endorsement. :)

Chad
--- Dave Moore <> wrote:

> Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production"
> programmers for
> PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web pages,
> found
> a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm
> looking
> for something that the young technician can use to program boards
> with
> already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.)
> Programming
> would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50
> units
> today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.")
> The
> actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd be
> cool if
> it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.
>
> I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with opinions
> on these
> programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- Dave


=====
My software has no bugs. Only undocumented features.
__________________________________



Hi,

The Asix Presto is a great little programmer, with pro software that comes
free with the device. Once you load a hex file into the software and set
your switches / fuses / etc. all you need is to press a small button on the
programmer box, and the download is done. Since it uses USB, no external
power supply, parallel port, and so on are required, it's very good for
field programming.

An 18F452 takes some 6-8 seconds to program fully. You can plug in, press,
plug out, plug in, press, plug out, and so on, very quick process. The
software can also serialise your PICs.

Just a very happy costumer, not affiliated to them in any way:
http://www.pic-tools.com

Regards,

Mike ----- Original Message -----
From: "rtstofer" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:30 PM
Subject: [piclist] Re: "Production" ICSP Programmer >
> You might check out the Warp 13a
> (http://www.newfoundelectronics.com/warp-13a.htm) It will do ICSP
> and it has ZIF sockets.
>
> I have it and I like it but I haven't used it for PIC18 devices. > --- In , "Dave Moore" <dmoore@q...> wrote:
> > Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production"
> programmers for
> > PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web
> pages, found
> > a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm
> looking
> > for something that the young technician can use to program boards
> with
> > already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.)
> Programming
> > would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50
> units
> > today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.")
> The
> > actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd
> be cool if
> > it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.
> >
> > I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with
> opinions on these
> > programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > -- Dave >
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links


Hello Dave,

the main question is to define the "production" term. It is enough to
have a marginal voltage verify feature? For the production I'm sure
not. The programmer must fulfill much more requirements. The well
designed, robust and reliable hardware is a base. Stable software,
focused to easy-to-use work with the programmer is a next step.
And don't forget to quick support from the manufacturer.
Project files, serialization (including QTFP), WIN-XP support,
additional command-line control, etc. What about selftest capability
of the programmer? Not need?

I'm using (not only because I'm also from Slovakia) the Elnec products
(http://www.elnec.com) for both work and home use. Check PIKprog+
(http://www.elnec.com/pikprogplus.php) and you have a first stage of
"professional" programmer. Or look at BeeProg
(http://www.elnec.com/beeprog.php), if you have to use USB connection
to PC.

Best regards from the Slovakia,
Jan. > Hate to do it, but I'm looking for opinions on "production" programmers for
> PIC18 flash devices. I've looked through the archives and web pages, found
> a few things, but not enough for me to say "that's the one." I'm looking
> for something that the young technician can use to program boards with
> already stuffed PIC18 parts (via an installed ICSP connector.) Programming
> would be in chunks of 50 boards at a time ("Dude, program those 50 units
> today and you probably won't see 50 more for a couple of weeks.") The
> actual binary will change pretty frequently (once a month). It'd be cool if
> it didn't require much keystroke input at all from a PC.

> I also read about a database that may exist somewhere with opinions on these
> programmers? Couldn't find it via google though...

> Thanks.

> -- Dave

> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions
> Yahoo! Groups Links

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