Forums

16F88 bootloader

Started by upand_at_them August 8, 2004
Bill has a better protection than yet mentioned: Who
would *want* to copy windows???? :-) --- Stef Mientki <> wrote:

>
>
> Dave Mucha wrote:
>
> >--- In , "rtstofer"
> <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Another approach if the encryption is trash is to
> hide the data in
> >>
> >>
> >a
> >
> >
> >>snowstorm. Send a ton of bytes, some of which
> have useful data.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Kinda like Windows ! ton of code, most is
> useless. I've never
> >heard of it being called snowstorm, but it seems to
> fit.
> >
> >
> A good engineer (with the right tools) can watch the
> functionality and
> put it into another processor.
> So the real thing to worry about is protection of
> the functionlity of an
> idea and not the byte-code.
>
> And again Bill has found a trick to protect that:
> ensure that the
> behaviour differs every time ;-)
>
> Stef
>
> >Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com
> and follow the instructions
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

__________________________________




I have some coworkers & friends who work very hard at reverse
engineering a portion of windows' functionality. They call their
product Samba. Curiously if they every succeed at the goal of
displacing MS they too will be out of work. --- In , Mr S <szinn_the1@y...> wrote:
> Bill has a better protection than yet mentioned: Who
> would *want* to copy windows???? :-)
>





Mr S wrote:

>Bill has a better protection than yet mentioned: Who
>would *want* to copy windows???? :-) >
Ok the quality of a product, might even be a better protection !!! :-) :-)
Stef

>
>



Isn't SAMBA the SMB windows networking subsystem on Linux? I'd say
they have been very successful. I use it on all my Linux boxes.
They have a tough job because MS keeps changing the SMB interface
gratuitously with each OS release but they seem to very on top of
it. Its an outstanding piece of work.

On copying windows - I think there are a lot of people that would
love to clone it to break MS's strangle hold on DT computing. On a
low end PC, more than 10% of the pruchase price goes directly to MS.
That's real incentive.

Finally, on the blizzard protection concept. There is a saying in
the secure computing community that "protection through obfuscation
is no protection at all". Or put another way, there is always some
smart, dedicated guy who will figure it out and it only takes one.

Phil

--- In , "Scott Lee" <midl_man@y...> wrote:
> I have some coworkers & friends who work very hard at reverse
> engineering a portion of windows' functionality. They call their
> product Samba. Curiously if they every succeed at the goal of
> displacing MS they too will be out of work. > --- In , Mr S <szinn_the1@y...> wrote:
> > Bill has a better protection than yet mentioned: Who
> > would *want* to copy windows???? :-)
> >




Scott, I like your name. Even more than that, I like
Samba and how it works. I appreciate even more that it
doesn't require a windows interface.

Samba makes windows pc's useful in the real world of
networking and computing, not just in the MS view of
that world. In my view, Samba does not simply immitate
a portion of windows, it improves the windows desktop
to the point that it is usable :)

I have a great appreciation for your coworkers and
friends.

--- Scott Lee <> wrote:

> I have some coworkers & friends who work very hard
> at reverse
> engineering a portion of windows' functionality.
> They call their
> product Samba. Curiously if they every succeed at
> the goal of
> displacing MS they too will be out of work. > --- In , Mr S
> <szinn_the1@y...> wrote:
> > Bill has a better protection than yet mentioned:
> Who
> > would *want* to copy windows???? :-)
> >
>
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__________________________________



--- In , Stef Mientki <s.mientki@m...> wrote:
>
>
> Dave Mucha wrote:
>
> >--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Another approach if the encryption is trash is to hide the data
in
> >>
> >>
> >a
> >
> >
> >>snowstorm. Send a ton of bytes, some of which have useful data.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Kinda like Windows ! ton of code, most is useless. I've never
> >heard of it being called snowstorm, but it seems to fit.
> >
> >
> A good engineer (with the right tools) can watch the functionality
and
> put it into another processor.
> So the real thing to worry about is protection of the functionlity
of an
> idea and not the byte-code.
>
> And again Bill has found a trick to protect that: ensure that the
> behaviour differs every time ;-)
>
> Stef

Sure, but many people think crashes and lock-ups are not a viable way
of working !

Dave



--- In , "Dave Mucha" <dave_mucha@y...> wrote:
> --- In , Stef Mientki <s.mientki@m...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dave Mucha wrote:
> >
> > >--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Another approach if the encryption is trash is to hide the data
> in
> > >a
> > >>snowstorm. Send a ton of bytes, some of which have useful data.
> > >
> > >
> > >Kinda like Windows ! ton of code, most is useless. I've never
> > >heard of it being called snowstorm, but it seems to fit.
> > >
> > >
> > A good engineer (with the right tools) can watch the functionality
> and
> > put it into another processor.
> > So the real thing to worry about is protection of the functionlity
> of an
> > idea and not the byte-code.
> >
> > And again Bill has found a trick to protect that: ensure that the
> > behaviour differs every time ;-)
> >
> > Stef
>
> Sure, but many people think crashes and lock-ups are not a viable way
> of working !
>
> Dave

I like to hold on to the thought that even the richest man in the
world has to reboot 5 times a day also. Unless he is smart enought to
run Linux. Imagine if that news got out.

Chad





On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Chad Russel wrote:

> I like to hold on to the thought that even the richest man in the
> world has to reboot 5 times a day also. Unless he is smart enought to
> run Linux.

Whow ! Linux seems to work without UPS and mains power.
I should try someday...

:)

Vasile



Honestly guys, if you can get linux, bsd or whatever your working on to
where you pop in a CD and it loads and configures right with no knowledge of
the kernal, libraries, dependancies, etc., you have a winner.

MS has gain it's position for many factors, even if product quality isn't
one of them. While the average user is challenged by dealing with
installing windows or frustrated by reinstalling, more often then not they
can do it themselves.

Even Mandrake (which I consider the most user friendly version) is too
technically demanding for my Mom to install and use. If you could have it
load up and recognize just about any normal hardware without user
intervention, you'd go a long way to promoting the penetraction into the end
user market. I'm talking near idiot proof auto installing of Atheros with
the mystery HAl and Prism modules, Nvidia, ATI and GLX that fall into place
without a hammer, etc....

"But I load blah blah all the time and have no problem." I'd hazard to
guess the technical competence of this forum is much higher than your
average home user.

If you want to talk uptime, I manage a herd of VAXen, and the worst of which
has an uptime of over 900 days without a reboot or any other attention
really. We have had some field units fail after uptimes over 10 years, upon
being opened up for autopsy, they were basically a solid cake of dust (Very
remote communication sites, no regular maintence.)

Me? I use a variety of Windows, OpenVMS(dec and alpha), Solaris, Linux
since version .99p16, Torvalds was still a student.

So back on topic, anyone port VMS to a 16F877 yet? :)

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
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yup yup yup. I've always maintained that setup/installation
technologies is a strategic advantage. When it takes 5K engineers to
make the next version of the OS work on all the flavors of
motherboards, display adaptors, and so on out there, who is going to
invest that kind of coin other than the entrenched monopoly?

--- In , "Kevin Van Winkle" <kvwinkle@h...>
wrote:
> Honestly guys, if you can get linux, bsd or whatever your working
on to
> where you pop in a CD and it loads and configures right with no
knowledge of
> the kernal, libraries, dependancies, etc., you have a winner.
>
> MS has gain it's position for many factors, even if product quality
isn't
> one of them. While the average user is challenged by dealing with
> installing windows or frustrated by reinstalling, more often then
not they
> can do it themselves.
>
> Even Mandrake (which I consider the most user friendly version) is
too
> technically demanding for my Mom to install and use. If you could
have it
> load up and recognize just about any normal hardware without user
> intervention, you'd go a long way to promoting the penetraction
into the end
> user market. I'm talking near idiot proof auto installing of
Atheros with
> the mystery HAl and Prism modules, Nvidia, ATI and GLX that fall
into place
> without a hammer, etc....
>
> "But I load blah blah all the time and have no problem." I'd
hazard to
> guess the technical competence of this forum is much higher than
your
> average home user.
>
> If you want to talk uptime, I manage a herd of VAXen, and the worst
of which
> has an uptime of over 900 days without a reboot or any other
attention
> really. We have had some field units fail after uptimes over 10
years, upon
> being opened up for autopsy, they were basically a solid cake of
dust (Very
> remote communication sites, no regular maintence.)
>
> Me? I use a variety of Windows, OpenVMS(dec and alpha), Solaris,
Linux
> since version .99p16, Torvalds was still a student.
>
> So back on topic, anyone port VMS to a 16F877 yet? :)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on
how to
> get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement