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Would that be the same Mozilla that has the 'shell:' vulnerability mentioned at US-CERT? More patches... 3% to 14% - seems staggering! Think about what that means - certainly not that people are walking away from IE but more likely 100 million new users in China are installing Mozilla because it is free. Knowing that the percentage increased without knowing the pool size or the change in the pool size is irrelevant even if the number is correct. And I kind of doubt the number as well. Who came up with it? What is their motivation? Who pays their salary? And I would take an even more cynical view if the US Govt had anything to do with the number. A company that grossed $1,000 last year and $10,000 this year could well be the fastest growing company in its field - 1000% growth!. It is still insignificant in a $10b field. If you are in the US I don't think you are doing anyone a favor by recommending a career in computers. The way I see it, the work is all being sent to India. Although I have always felt that computer science was the place to be and have promoted it highly, I have changed my mind in the last couple of years. This globalization thing will destroy the country if it continues. We can only be the world's largest market if people have jobs and prices will have to come down substantially if our companies intend to sell to the people they are underpaying. Personally, I would recommend the electrical trade to anyone. It has the advantage of being somewhat mysterious (what you can't see WILL kill you!) and it requires hands touch the product. Med school or trade school but leave computers to someone else. --- In , Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote: > Just an FYI for everyone, not to keep a flame going, but US-CERT, US > Computer Emergency Readiness Team http://www.us-cert.gov issued an > advisory about 1 month ago that all not expert users should not us IE. > I have lost the bookmark, you can look, or I will later. I am not sure > how they have hushed this one, but they have. Latest figures show > Mozilla going from 3% to 14% of browser usage in the last 18 months. > > I hope I am more right then wrong, because I am advising students going > into computers to concentrate on Unix/Linux if they want a job in 10 > years. > > Regards, :D > Chad > > --- rtstofer <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > > > > Again, the decisions are made in the marketplace - you choose to buy > > (or whatever) some other OS? Hey, no problem. But your decision > > doesn't diminish the accomplishments of Microsoft or enhance those > > of Linux. The marketplace has spoken. Linux isn't making the cut. > > > > And why would anyone spend more money on a 1960s OS with an X- > > Windows overlay? > > > > Frankly, I don't know what Microsoft can do to improve Windows XP. > > Despite your assertions, it does not crash - ever. They could stop > > development right here and things would be good enough. That would > > give Linux the 40 years they need to catch up. > > > > Besides, it isn't about the OS, it's about the applications and how > > well they are integrated with the OS and each other. I have tried > > the office suites on Linux - they will NEVER catch up to Microsoft > > Office. End users don't care about the OS, the work with the apps. > > > > You really want to put MySQL up against SQL Server? Not even > > close! Now I will grant that Apache is a very good web server. It > > is excellent. I prefer Internet Information Server because of the > > control panel and perhaps because I understand it a little better > > but Apache is VERY good. PHP against ASP or ASP.NET? - again, no > > contest. PHP works well, ASP.NET works better. > > > > Netscape against Internet Explorer? No contest - IE has won hands > > down. Mozilla? A close competitor of Lynx. > > > > The marketplace has spoken. > > > ===== > My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. > > _______________________________ > |
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16F88 bootloader
Started by ●August 8, 2004
Reply by ●September 3, 20042004-09-03
Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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--- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > Would that be the same Mozilla that has the 'shell:' vulnerability > mentioned at US-CERT? More patches... > Actually it is a Windows bug and not a Mozilla bug. Mozilla just found a way to work around it. The same bug affects other software too. > 3% to 14% - seems staggering! Think about what that means - > certainly not that people are walking away from IE but more likely > 100 million new users in China are installing Mozilla because it is > free. Knowing that the percentage increased without knowing the Within the last two months I know of at least a dozen people who dropped IE for firefox. And I'm not asking around... these are just coworkers and family members that have mentioned it. I think the trend is real. People are fed up with IE exploits, drive by downloads, browser hijacking, and all. > A company that grossed $1,000 last year and $10,000 this year could > well be the fastest growing company in its field - 1000% growth!. > It is still insignificant in a $10b field. But in your example the growth rate is derived solely from the entity that grew and does not take market size into account. In the case of browser market share it is derived from the market size. Ergo, your example does not apply. You are right on many counts though. Microsoft bashing has been in vogue for a few years and if the apps you need aren't available then you don't need to consider that particular OS. On the other hand the only thing I use XP for these days is for two things at work -- netmeeting and powerpoint slides. Seriously. I don't even need to use Outlook as I can use Ximian Evolution to communicate with the exchange server for email *and* the calendar. At home I'm even starting to do my pic development on linux. Which hopefully leads us back to a pic related topic... Is anyone else using pikdev and gpicp? I'm just starting to use them and haven't really noticed any problems other than lack of support for the 18F2320 by gpicp (which I hope to rectify in the near future:). Of course I've only used them for about an hour or so combined so far but they seem to work. Any pitfalls that I haven't run into? --Scott |
Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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> These decisions are made in the marketplace - the only opinion that > matters. If decisions are made in the marketplace - is it the only opinion that matters? Or there is something else... IMHO, you are missing the point. It's all about freedom. Freedom of choice. How can you explain that someone recommends Linux to its students although he's aware that Linux can't be compared with Windows when it comes to quality of the product, support, etc? How can you explain that someone spends days trying to install Linux on its computer although he already has Windows which is fully functional, easier to use and can be installed in minutes? How can you explain that people fool everyone even themselves when they say that Linux is the future of computing? It's all about freedom, my friend. People feel that Microsoft has kind of communist (or fascist) business policy and people feel that they should fight that. Maybe they don't understand it this way but what they do is that they are trying to gain their freedom back. We don't even remember the names of all of those beautiful applications and operating systems that Microsoft systematically destroyed. It's not marketplace or business. It's communism and you are living it. Just install that stupid Linux and try to support people who write it. Don't defend Windows. We all know that it's much better operating system than Linux but we hate it anyway. Regards, Igor |
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Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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> How can you explain that someone recommends Linux to its > students although > he's aware that Linux can't be compared with Windows when it comes to > quality of the product, support, etc? Because (at least for my particular purpose) it can indeed not be compared to windows - it is much better. If you don't agree please tell me where I can get a Windows bootable CD, that includes a decent C compiler, and is free to copy, so I can test it and decide whether to switch to it for next year's course. And note that I did not recommended it - I enforced it :) Some of my students complained about that stupid slow-booting Knoppix. Instead they want to use their home Linux PC and to demonstrate the correct working of their programs they will remotely log into their home Linux box from the classroom PCs. Of course I don't object to this! As far as I am concerned they can use XP on the classroom PCs to run the terminal server or X windows they need to log into their home PCs :) One more note: I do use W-XP. And W-98-SE. And sometimes other versions. And probably more often than I use Linux. Partly out of habit, partly because it is on my PC anyway, partly because more apps are available. But I still don't think it is a better system than Linux or another Unix. Wouter van Ooijen -- ------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products |
Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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> > How can you explain that someone recommends Linux to its > > students although > > he's aware that Linux can't be compared with Windows when it comes to > > quality of the product, support, etc? > > Because (at least for my particular purpose) it can indeed not be > compared to windows - it is much better. If you don't agree please tell > me where I can get a Windows bootable CD, that includes a decent C > compiler, and is free to copy, so I can test it and decide whether to > switch to it for next year's course. And note that I did not recommended > it - I enforced it :) Actually, I was referring to my university professor, but OK :) Anyway, I agree with all of your points. I really hope that Linux will be capable to substitute Windows and its applications one day, which means not to have Windows on your computer at all. To have a choice and to discuss which OS is better and why. Resurrection of OS Warp or any other alternative OS will be welcomed too, as far as I'm concerned. Until then... we are convicted to Windows :) Regards, Igor |
Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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--- In , "Igor Janjatovic" <kodrat@p...> wrote: > > These decisions are made in the marketplace - the only opinion that > > matters. > > If decisions are made in the marketplace - is it the only opinion that > matters? Or there is something else... > > IMHO, you are missing the point. > > It's all about freedom. Freedom of choice. But this thread was about bashing - I have no problem with people choosing Linux. It works but even that isn't the point. Go ahead and choose. But that doesn't make it the only (or even best in some context) choice. > > How can you explain that someone recommends Linux to its students although > he's aware that Linux can't be compared with Windows when it comes to > quality of the product, support, etc? > The same way public schools in the US keep trying to promote Apple. Seems Apple gave the schools A LOT of machines, gave the teachers training and the teachers do the marketing. When the students hit the real world there won't be an Apple to be found. The teachers, at all levels, do a great disservice when they promote something out of the mainstream. Besides being wonderful toys, computers are used to make a living and I would guess most companies are Windows based. > How can you explain that someone spends days trying to install Linux on its > computer although he already has Windows which is fully functional, easier > to use and can be installed in minutes? > Darned if I know, I did the same thing. I wanted to try it, to play with Linux. I need the knowledge and I want to make it play. But when it comes time to do the work I use Windows XP or Windows 98 for robotics projects. Before I trashed it, I had Red Hat 7.3 running on one machine as a server and a second machine as a workstation because I wanted to play with Apache, PHP, MySQL and the GNU suite - I needed the knowledge. > How can you explain that people fool everyone even themselves when they say > that Linux is the future of computing? Don't know, and personally I don't agree. But people believe in lots of things and are certainly free to do so. > > It's all about freedom, my friend. People feel that Microsoft has kind of > communist (or fascist) business policy and people feel that they should > fight that. Maybe they don't understand it this way but what they do is that > they are trying to gain their freedom back. > You are free to choose. But most people just don't care about the OS. They have some idea of what they need to do and just want to get on with it. When I see one of the Fortune 100 companies change their entire corporation to Linux I will begin to believe. In the meantime I'll hang out with Windows. > We don't even remember the names of all of those beautiful applications and > operating systems that Microsoft systematically destroyed. > > It's not marketplace or business. It's communism and you are living it. > If the apps were better they would still be around. I used to like Think Tank (outline writer). It was great! But it was too specialized and the concept was rolled into Word and that was the end of it. Darwin had a theory about that type of thing. > Just install that stupid Linux and try to support people who write it. Don't > defend Windows. We all know that it's much better operating system than > Linux but we hate it anyway. > I will eventually give it another shot - I have a lot of hardware and dual booting works well. I would even consider buying the latest Red Hat but for the complete lack of support without a maintenance fee exceeding the first cost of the software and the apparent decision to no longer market to single user workstations. > Regards, > Igor |
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Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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A point here: Unfortunately the market does not represent the end user. Too many organization I know use Windows only because the edict came from on high. One government organization here I know of basically went down the tubes because of the work they were doing was suited for Corel products and Mac. All had to go in the dumpster. I am strictly looking at the bottom line myself. My business is computers, and I was all hot for Windows when I first installed. My system up time (productive work) went from about 95% to 70% immediately on that system, and overall has been falling as more programs were moved from workstations to PCs. I have to soon purchase a major replacement software package(~$50K), and they will sell Windows package, but only if I twist their arm. Sorry, it will be Solaris, HP or Linux. I think this has been well vented. :-) Time for some PIC'ing Anyone know of a good HEX compare program? I found a C++ line input/output but, ehhhhh, you know. Boring. :-p Chad --- Igor Janjatovic <> wrote: > > These decisions are made in the marketplace - the only opinion that > > matters. > > If decisions are made in the marketplace - is it the only opinion > that > matters? Or there is something else... > > IMHO, you are missing the point. > > It's all about freedom. Freedom of choice. > > How can you explain that someone recommends Linux to its students > although > he's aware that Linux can't be compared with Windows when it comes to > quality of the product, support, etc? > > How can you explain that someone spends days trying to install Linux > on its > computer although he already has Windows which is fully functional, > easier > to use and can be installed in minutes? > > How can you explain that people fool everyone even themselves when > they say > that Linux is the future of computing? > > It's all about freedom, my friend. People feel that Microsoft has > kind of > communist (or fascist) business policy and people feel that they > should > fight that. Maybe they don't understand it this way but what they do > is that > they are trying to gain their freedom back. > > We don't even remember the names of all of those beautiful > applications and > operating systems that Microsoft systematically destroyed. > > It's not marketplace or business. It's communism and you are living > it. > > Just install that stupid Linux and try to support people who write > it. Don't > defend Windows. We all know that it's much better operating system > than > Linux but we hate it anyway. > > Regards, > Igor > ===== My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. _______________________________ |
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Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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Wow, <stepping on soapbox> There are strong feelings in this group as well as others about what OS works or doesn't. I don't like Mickey$oft bloatware. From the point of view of running a network, M$ is finally coming up to par with what *nix can do and has been doing for years. If you read the news on the net, M$ engineers are now having to deal with things that a good *nix network manager has always dealt with, but they have to do it the M$ way ... For years, *nix and Mac were the only boxes you could get to run computationally expensive applications on, so had no choice in some applications or vocations. The gist of this thread is almost pointing this out, so let me say it. Each OS has its benefits and detractions. For my parents, they get WinXP just because it is easier, and requires less knowledge of the OS to use. My mum uses both XP and MacOS (work) and she if fine till the OS gets in the way of her applications working. At work, I've had *nix systems that have never needed a reboot and have only come down to upgrade the OS or move the machine. I can't say the same for M$ desktops, though NTServer has a good reputation in my group. We pump gigabytes of data around our backbone every day, using Solaris, RedHat, Fedora, and AIX to crunch it all into a data warehouse among other things. We also have the NT servers. For all of this work being done everyday, we do not use a drop of .net or C# or VBScript. If you need a computer to do something well and reliably, and don't want to learn .net or bloat your apps, you can't beat *nix and PERL, SQL, Apache etc... In my experience, it is rock solid. As it happens, we have been teaching the IT group how XP networking and security functions, and having the knowledge gained from running a *nix server farm, we do have more than the average desktop user would have. The thing is that we have more knowledge of the M$ desktop systems than the average user has because we have spent the time, played with it, read about it, experienced it. There is NO operating system that is fault free, or that is extremely tolerant of the ignorant user. The more informed you are, the better any OS will work for you. I agree that choices help make all the product better, that is what competition does for a market place. Until Mr Gates made DOS unecessary, Digital Research was IMHO winning the DOS war. IT was the competition that brought you so many features to DOS as freebies. There is only two competitors to M$ on the desktop, Mac, and the Linux family. IMO, it behooves all of us to know about each of them, or at least two of them. If you want to set up a firewall at home, and have a mail proxy and caching web proxy on it to make your desktop experience better, my choice is *nix, not M$. That requires knowledge that M$ will hide from its users, as needs be to keep it simple for folk like my parents, but if you get the knowledge and use the better OS, then you are the winner, and the market place is the winner. People who are hacking their own TiVo machines and iTunes servers are not using M$ products. People who are doing anything useful with computers are not using M$ products. Supercomputers and even M$ webservers don't use M$ products. The latest M$ IIS is more like Apache than you would believe. M$ has a hold on the desktop for the very reasons that everyone has stated, but that doesn't mean they have the best product for every application. There are many robotics hobbyiests that still use DOS still to program their creations. Yes, compatability with the rest of the world may require you to use M$ desktops, but it doesn't mean you can afford to ignore the *nix world. If you feel the need to know, grab an older computer, load some Fedora or other *nix on it, and start playing, reading, and experimenting. *nix doesn't hide the computer's insides from you and allows you more and easier access with free or cheap tools, mostly free. Try buying MSDN or .net or any M$ development tools.... it's E X P E N S I V E !!! *nix systems send you development tools on the installation CDs. Not all that you need, but hey, at least they did... In the *nix world, there are those that would hack a sound card driver then share it with the world. In the M$ world, you have to pay for that... usually through the nose. If you just want a computer desktop to be a tool with some applications on it.. buy a mac or a M$ system. If you really want to do some development or something useful other than read e-mail or balance your checkbook, then you ignore *nix at your peril. I have both at home and at work. The M$ systems are my tools, like a drill or saw. I don't take them apart, I just use them to accomplish the jobs that those tools were meant to accomplish. All my development and serious work is done on *nix. And yes, there are tools on the M$ boxes that help me accomplish the development. BTW, the Xwindow client in Fedora is pretty cool. Just as you would not use an electric drill to cut a board, pick the OS for the application or task as needed. </Stepping off soapbox> Cheers Scott _______________________________ |
Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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> I think this has been well vented. :-) Time for some PIC'ing
Anyone > know of a good HEX compare program? I found a C++ line input/output > but, ehhhhh, you know. Boring. :-p Not a program, but my Xwisp PC software for my Wisp628 program contains a hex image class that can at least tell whether two hex files are the same, and if not what the first difference is. You could probably tweak it to a hex image substraction. And by the way: it is written in Python, to be Win/Penguin neutral :) Wouter van Ooijen -- ------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products |
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Reply by ●September 4, 20042004-09-04
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--- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote: <<< snip >>> > You could probably tweak it to a hex image substraction. > And by the way: it is written in Python, to be Win/Penguin neutral :) > > Wouter van Ooijen > > -- ------- > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > consultancy, development, PICmicro products I assume You = me? :-p Well I have downloaded Python, along with, in the last week, ActiveTcl and TkCVS for Microchip version control on Windoze, apparently these are required to talk to my Linux CVS. :(( I am a babe at object/high level(other than the ancient languages), but are not Tcl and Python reincarnations of Java? I am trying to get a handle on C++ and Perl, so why not add Python? Hate to say it, but I just visited your website for the 1st time. Very nice, I am impressed. :D If I end up doing something with this Python, you/group can have the results to do with as you like. Chad ===== My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. __________________________________ |
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