Microchip sucks :-)

Started by Igor Janjatovic August 17, 2004
> 3. Perhaps in a group like this, where the two users meet, some
> constructive critisism can be generated for Microchip, other than
> "your software sucks."

I agree with Chad. Also, this "sucks this, sucks that" thing made me think
about this group and its members. I've sent a message to piclist group owner
asking him to enable pools on piclist group. I already asked him to solve
problem with Western Union and he did that so I hope that he will enable
pools, too.

Anyway, idea is to have a pool with question like this:

***
Should someone from Microchip Tech Support join piclist group in order to
support its members?
1. Yes. It could be very useful.
2. No. There's no need for that.
3. Whatever. I don't care...
***

If enough people vote for this (there are more than 1700 members) we can
talk to Microchip and see if they can have someone on this group just like
there are guys from Philips on LPC2k group. Might be useful for both
Microchip and piclist members. We can send them links to both piclist home
page and results of this pool and someone who writes English *much better*
than me can write some nice message and explain benefits of supporting
piclist group.

By the way... Microchip rules! :-)

Regards,
Igor

P.S.
There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))




I'm pretty sure it's against Microchip corporate policy for any of
their employees to participate in any public forums, such as Yahoo
groups.

They have an official group of forums on their web site in which at
least 6 to 8 tech support persons actively participate and provide
the kind of information you speak of. I guess it could be viewed as the
"official" Microchip response to a given question.

Most big companies have a policy like this since they don't want to be
liable for anything an employee might say that's not the "official
company line" and posted on a public forum they don't control. A lot of
large companies also have a policy of "you break this rule, you're
fired". Gotta love lawyers... :-(

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:48:12 +0200, Igor Janjatovic wrote:
>Anyway, idea is to have a pool with question like this:
>
>*** Should someone from Microchip Tech Support join piclist group in
>order to support its members? 1. Yes. It could be very useful. 2. No.
>There's no need for that. 3. Whatever. I don't care... ***
>
>If enough people vote for this (there are more than 1700 members) we
>can talk to Microchip and see if they can have someone on this group
>just like there are guys from Philips on LPC2k group. Might be useful
>for both Microchip and piclist members. We can send them links to
>both piclist home page and results of this pool and someone who
>writes English *much better* than me can write some nice message and
>explain benefits of supporting piclist group.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Pobursky" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: [piclist] Microchip sucks :-) > I'm pretty sure it's against Microchip corporate policy for any of
> their employees to participate in any public forums, such as Yahoo
> groups.
>
> They have an official group of forums on their web site in which at
> least 6 to 8 tech support persons actively participate and provide
> the kind of information you speak of. I guess it could be viewed as the
> "official" Microchip response to a given question.
>
> Most big companies have a policy like this since they don't want to be
> liable for anything an employee might say that's not the "official
> company line" and posted on a public forum they don't control. A lot of
> large companies also have a policy of "you break this rule, you're
> fired". Gotta love lawyers... :-(

Identifiable Xilinx, Altera and Atmel employees participate in relevant NGs,
and the LPC2000 Yahoo Group I formed often has (anonymous) contributions
from Philips apps people.

Leon



--- Igor Janjatovic <> wrote:
>
> P.S.
> There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
>

ROFLMAO

I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important enough
and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called Microchip
and reported back. Being a local number may help response time.

And....they may already be here. You never know. :-p

Chad
=====
My software has no bugs, only undocumented features.
__________________________________




--- In , Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Igor Janjatovic <kodrat@p...> wrote:
> >
> > P.S.
> > There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
> >
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important
enough
> and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called
Microchip
> and reported back. Being a local number may help response time.
>
> And....they may already be here. You never know. :-p
>
> Chad

I'm thinking that many manufactureres have an idea what goes on in
these lists.

I know we talked about samples some months ago and the consensus was
that Maxim has a great sample offer, but getting chips is too darn
hard.

I coppied sent customer support some of the texts with the list URL
to tell them of some 'user feedback'

But, not that you metnion it, we do get some posts of 'read the data
sheet' or check out these app notes......

not commenting or adding information, just directing to official
documents.... I wonder....

But, yes, Microchip would be welcome and would get a feel for what
the yahoo list is doing.

But, the other picklist is much larger and has more traffic and is
unofficial as well. So it seems the company people could have to
keep up with all the stuff going on or just support it's official
base.

My suggestion is that if you don't like the official list, tell them
and tell them why and tell them what you want. Mention it here and
maybe others here will also talk about what they want from that
list. They can't fix it if they don't know it's broken.

If you want official support, that is the place.

Dave



I think the point is Microchip does not care about the users, so telling them what you like or dislike is a waste of time.

 

I actually was told that waiting 2 weeks for Microchip to respond to a bug that stopped development was acceptable to them. Don’t get me wrong there was no fix after 2 weeks rather after 2 weeks they responded and said they received the bug report and I would have to wait a few more weeks for verification that the bug exists and then a few more weeks for a possible fix.

 

Personally I really like Microchip’s silicon, but hate their development tools and support.

 

Regards,

Trampas

 

 

From: Dave Mucha [mailto:d...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:45 PM
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [piclist] Re: Microchip sucks :-)

 

--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Igor Janjatovic <kodrat@p...> wrote:
> >
> > P.S.
> > There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
> >
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important
enough
> and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called
Microchip
> and reported back.  Being a local number may help response time.
>
> And....they may already be here.  You never know. :-p
>
> Chad
>
>

I'm thinking that many manufactureres have an idea what goes on in
these lists.

I know we talked about samples some months ago and the consensus was
that Maxim has a great sample offer, but getting chips is too darn
hard.

I coppied sent customer support some of the texts with the list URL
to tell them of some 'user feedback'

But, not that you metnion it, we do get some posts of 'read the data
sheet' or check out these app notes......

not commenting or adding information, just directing to official
documents....  I wonder....

But, yes, Microchip would be welcome and would get a feel for what
the yahoo list is doing.

But, the other picklist is much larger and has more traffic and is
unofficial as well.   So it seems the company people could have to
keep up with all the stuff going on or just support it's official
base.

My suggestion is that if you don't like the official list, tell them
and tell them why and tell them what you want.  Mention it here and
maybe others here will also talk about what they want from that
list.  They can't fix it if they don't know it's broken.

If you want official support, that is the place.

Dave


to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions




You have to look at it from their point of view. If one of those low life hobbyist types complains, they really can' say yes we'll
get on it right away. It just isn't cost effective for a few reasons, i.e. end user volume, if the error is actually on their end or just
an error on the end users part in programming,setup etc. Think about how many thousands of bucks it is going to cost in labour
and materials to investigate any new complaint. Is it worth that money to respond to one guy who uses a handful of chips a year?
 
If on the other hand they get a lot of the same problems from multiple end-users, or someone who chews through 10's of thousands
of pics a year then that might be a serious indication of something wrong and more likely to get a quick response.
 
Honestly I'd say Microchip is pretty good on their support and caters quite well to hobbyist and small users.  I've gone from
mooching al the samples I could to being able to order directs from them and can say there really isn't that great a difference in treatment
unlike the distributors.
 
Dave
 
I think the point is Microchip does not care about the users, so telling them what you like or dislike is a waste of time.

 

I actually was told that waiting 2 weeks for Microchip to respond to a bug that stopped development was acceptable to them. Dont get me wrong there was no fix after 2 weeks rather after 2 weeks they responded and said they received the bug report and I would have to wait a few more weeks for verification that the bug exists and then a few more weeks for a possible fix.

 

Personally I really like Microchips silicon, but hate their development tools and support.

 

Regards,

Trampas

 

--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Igor Janjatovic <kodrat@p...> wrote:
> >
> > P.S.
> > There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
> >
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important
enough
> and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called
Microchip
> and reported back.  Being a local number may help response time.
>
> And....they may already be here.  You never know. :-p
>
> Chad
>
>

I'm thinking that many manufactureres have an idea what goes on in
these lists.

I know we talked about samples some months ago and the consensus was
that Maxim has a great sample offer, but getting chips is too darn
hard.

I coppied sent customer support some of the texts with the list URL
to tell them of some 'user feedback'

But, not that you metnion it, we do get some posts of 'read the data
sheet' or check out these app notes......

not commenting or adding information, just directing to official
documents....  I wonder....

But, yes, Microchip would be welcome and would get a feel for what
the yahoo list is doing.

But, the other picklist is much larger and has more traffic and is
unofficial as well.   So it seems the company people could have to
keep up with all the stuff going on or just support it's official
base.

My suggestion is that if you don't like the official list, tell them
and tell them why and tell them what you want.  Mention it here and
maybe others here will also talk about what they want from that
list.  They can't fix it if they don't know it's broken.

If you want official support, that is the place.

Dave


to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions



to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions



Actually, I do embedded development work for a living, I am currently working on a product using a PIC18 and planning on selling several thousand units. Actually we are hoping for 10’s of thousands….

 

Therefore when I say that Microchip support is not up to par I am talking about support I am getting in my daily job, not as a hobbyist. Thus imagine going to your boss and saying “well the project is delayed while Microchip sorts out this latest bug.”  To put the support issues in perspective, last year we ended up redesigning a product after 5 months of development to remove the Microchip processor and replace it with a TI one due to the problems with support from Microchip. In fact they told me I needed to purchase a demo board, then make my code run on the demo board to demonstrate the problem I was having, other wise they could not help me as they could not recreate the problem.  

 

Even after that experience I am still working with Microchip on this product do to the fact that the silicon is a perfect fit for the application, that is to do the same design with TI would take 4 chips as compared to one PIC, again in quantities of a thousand this is a big deal. I did have the foresight to do the development of this product concurrently with two other projects such that I am not “twiddling my thumbs” waiting on support from Microchip. But I will say that I make every attempt to find an alternative to Microchips parts when ever I can because of their poor tools and support.  

 

Regards,

Trampas

 

From: David W.S. King [mailto:K...@Shaw.Ca]
Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:46 PM
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [piclist] Re: Microchip sucks :-)

 

You have to look at it from their point of view. If one of those low life hobbyist types complains, they really can' say yes we'll

get on it right away. It just isn't cost effective for a few reasons, i.e. end user volume, if the error is actually on their end or just

an error on the end users part in programming,setup etc. Think about how many thousands of bucks it is going to cost in labour

and materials to investigate any new complaint. Is it worth that money to respond to one guy who uses a handful of chips a year?

 

If on the other hand they get a lot of the same problems from multiple end-users, or someone who chews through 10's of thousands

of pics a year then that might be a serious indication of something wrong and more likely to get a quick response.

 

Honestly I'd say Microchip is pretty good on their support and caters quite well to hobbyist and small users.  I've gone from

mooching al the samples I could to being able to order directs from them and can say there really isn't that great a difference in treatment

unlike the distributors.

 

Dave

 

I think the point is Microchip does not care about the users, so telling them what you like or dislike is a waste of time.

 

I actually was told that waiting 2 weeks for Microchip to respond to a bug that stopped development was acceptable to them. Don’t get me wrong there was no fix after 2 weeks rather after 2 weeks they responded and said they received the bug report and I would have to wait a few more weeks for verification that the bug exists and then a few more weeks for a possible fix.

 

Personally I really like Microchip’s silicon, but hate their development tools and support.

 

Regards,

Trampas

 

--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Igor Janjatovic <kodrat@p...> wrote:
> >
> > P.S.
> > There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
> >
>
> ROFLMAO
>
> I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important
enough
> and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called
Microchip
> and reported back.  Being a local number may help response time.
>
> And....they may already be here.  You never know. :-p
>
> Chad
>
>

I'm thinking that many manufactureres have an idea what goes on in
these lists.

I know we talked about samples some months ago and the consensus was
that Maxim has a great sample offer, but getting chips is too darn
hard.

I coppied sent customer support some of the texts with the list URL
to tell them of some 'user feedback'

But, not that you metnion it, we do get some posts of 'read the data
sheet' or check out these app notes......

not commenting or adding information, just directing to official
documents....  I wonder....

But, yes, Microchip would be welcome and would get a feel for what
the yahoo list is doing.

But, the other picklist is much larger and has more traffic and is
unofficial as well.   So it seems the company people could have to
keep up with all the stuff going on or just support it's official
base.

My suggestion is that if you don't like the official list, tell them
and tell them why and tell them what you want.  Mention it here and
maybe others here will also talk about what they want from that
list.  They can't fix it if they don't know it's broken.

If you want official support, that is the place.

Dave


to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions



to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions



to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions




I think I would come up with my own work around at that point.

--- Trampas <> wrote:

> Actually, I do embedded development work for a living, I am currently
> working on a product using a PIC18 and planning on selling several
> thousand
> units. Actually we are hoping for 10's of thousands.. >
> Therefore when I say that Microchip support is not up to par I am
> talking
> about support I am getting in my daily job, not as a hobbyist. Thus
> imagine
> going to your boss and saying "well the project is delayed while
> Microchip
> sorts out this latest bug." To put the support issues in
> perspective, last
> year we ended up redesigning a product after 5 months of development
> to
> remove the Microchip processor and replace it with a TI one due to
> the
> problems with support from Microchip. In fact they told me I needed
> to
> purchase a demo board, then make my code run on the demo board to
> demonstrate the problem I was having, other wise they could not help
> me as
> they could not recreate the problem. >
> Even after that experience I am still working with Microchip on this
> product
> do to the fact that the silicon is a perfect fit for the application,
> that
> is to do the same design with TI would take 4 chips as compared to
> one PIC,
> again in quantities of a thousand this is a big deal. I did have the
> foresight to do the development of this product concurrently with two
> other
> projects such that I am not "twiddling my thumbs" waiting on support
> from
> Microchip. But I will say that I make every attempt to find an
> alternative
> to Microchips parts when ever I can because of their poor tools and
> support. >
>
> Regards,
>
> Trampas >
> _____
>
> From: David W.S. King [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 4:46 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [piclist] Re: Microchip sucks :-) >
> You have to look at it from their point of view. If one of those low
> life
> hobbyist types complains, they really can' say yes we'll
>
> get on it right away. It just isn't cost effective for a few reasons,
> i.e.
> end user volume, if the error is actually on their end or just
>
> an error on the end users part in programming,setup etc. Think about
> how
> many thousands of bucks it is going to cost in labour
>
> and materials to investigate any new complaint. Is it worth that
> money to
> respond to one guy who uses a handful of chips a year? >
> If on the other hand they get a lot of the same problems from
> multiple
> end-users, or someone who chews through 10's of thousands
>
> of pics a year then that might be a serious indication of something
> wrong
> and more likely to get a quick response. >
> Honestly I'd say Microchip is pretty good on their support and caters
> quite
> well to hobbyist and small users. I've gone from
>
> mooching al the samples I could to being able to order directs from
> them and
> can say there really isn't that great a difference in treatment
>
> unlike the distributors. >
> Dave >
> I think the point is Microchip does not care about the users, so
> telling
> them what you like or dislike is a waste of time. >
> I actually was told that waiting 2 weeks for Microchip to respond to
> a bug
> that stopped development was acceptable to them. Don't get me wrong
> there
> was no fix after 2 weeks rather after 2 weeks they responded and said
> they
> received the bug report and I would have to wait a few more weeks for
> verification that the bug exists and then a few more weeks for a
> possible
> fix. >
> Personally I really like Microchip's silicon, but hate their
> development
> tools and support. >
> Regards,
>
> Trampas >
> --- In , Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote:
> >
> > --- Igor Janjatovic <kodrat@p...> wrote:
> > >
> > > P.S.
> > > There is online forum at microchip dot com but it sucks :-))
> > >
> >
> > ROFLMAO
> >
> > I am not volunteering, but in the past when something important
> enough
> > and appropriate has come up here in the group, I have called
> Microchip
> > and reported back. Being a local number may help response time.
> >
> > And....they may already be here. You never know. :-p
> >
> > Chad
> >
> >
>
> I'm thinking that many manufactureres have an idea what goes on in
> these lists.
>
> I know we talked about samples some months ago and the consensus was
> that Maxim has a great sample offer, but getting chips is too darn
> hard.
>
> I coppied sent customer support some of the texts with the list URL
> to tell them of some 'user feedback'
>
> But, not that you metnion it, we do get some posts of 'read the data
> sheet' or check out these app notes......
>
> not commenting or adding information, just directing to official
> documents.... I wonder....
>
> But, yes, Microchip would be welcome and would get a feel for what
> the yahoo list is doing.
>
> But, the other picklist is much larger and has more traffic and is
> unofficial as well. So it seems the company people could have to
> keep up with all the stuff going on or just support it's official
> base.
>
> My suggestion is that if you don't like the official list, tell them
> and tell them why and tell them what you want. Mention it here and
> maybe others here will also talk about what they want from that
> list. They can't fix it if they don't know it's broken.
>
> If you want official support, that is the place.
>
> Dave >
>
> to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> instructions
=== message truncated === =====
My software has no bugs, only undocumented features.
__________________________________



On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, David W.S. King wrote:

>
> Honestly I'd say Microchip is pretty good on their support and caters quite
> well to hobbyist and small users. I've gone from
> mooching al the samples I could to being able to order directs from them and
> can say there really isn't that great a difference in treatment
> unlike the distributors.

Then certainly you live in the US.
Microchip is indeed very good in software support. Else they couldn't sell
own products. But they have to work seriously at documentations. A PIC
datasheet must contain a full and complete information about that
microcontroller. Terms like "these parameters are characterized but not
tested" should tell what I'm thinking about. Like I said, I'm not agree
that Microchip sucks, but they have more to work.

best regards,
Vasile
http://surducan.netfirms.com