16f877 cant use ICSP

Started by November 14, 2004

I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's
and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.

I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6
and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. ill try to pull these up more. other then
that, no idea. is there something else i may have missed?

Michael




> I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
> both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's
> and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
> active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.

The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most
programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different.

> I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6
> and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.

That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like
applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?

Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or F88 are
supported?

Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu




Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on
vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho
recently went to a 20v dc adapter .

--- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> wrote:
> > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
> > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some 877's
> > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
> > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.
>
> The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most
> programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different.
>
> > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though rb6
> > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.
>
> That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like
> applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?
>
> Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or F88 are
> supported?
>
> Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?
>
> Wouter van Ooijen
>
> -- -------
> Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu






The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than
the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised
strategy, it probably won't.

More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 and
877A.

You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem.
Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive.

--- In , michaelerath@n... wrote:
>
> Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on
> vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho
> recently went to a 20v dc adapter .
>
> --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> wrote:
> > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
> > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some
877's
> > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
> > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.
> >
> > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most
> > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different.
> >
> > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal.
though rb6
> > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.
> >
> > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like
> > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?
> >
> > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or
F88 are
> > supported?
> >
> > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> >
> > -- -------
> > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu





--- In , michaelerath@n... wrote:
>
> I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
> both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some
877's
> and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
> active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.
>
> I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal. though
rb6
> and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC. ill try to pull these up more. other then
> that, no idea. is there something else i may have missed?
>
> Michael


As rtstofer said, the programming algorithm for the 877A is totally
different from that for the 877. When I switched chips, I needed to
get a software upgrade for my EPIC programmer from melabs.

Regards rb6/7 hitting only 3.37v, well, you might need to disconnect
whatever loads are connected to those 2 pins in order to do ICSP
successfully. You might be getting a voltage-divider effect. In
addition, you may also need to use a diode or large value R in the
Mclr line [going to the reset cktry], in order that your programmer
can pull up the Mclr pin. Mchp discusses these issues in its
programming docos.

Regards pulling PGM to gnd ... a couple of years ago, you couldn't
program an 876/877 in HVP mode without grounding that pin, but the
newer chips all seem to program fine without it. - dan michaels
www.oricomtech.com
=========================


Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip.

Has anyone else had this problem?

 

Michael

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: rtstofer [mailto:r...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM
To: p...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP

 



The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than
the 877.  Unless your software states that it can handle the revised
strategy, it probably won't.

More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877 and
877A.

You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem.
Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive.

--- In p...@yahoogroups.com, michaelerath@n... wrote:
>
> Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v on
> vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho
> recently went to a 20v dc adapter .
>
> --- In p...@yahoogroups.com, "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...> wrote:
> > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my 16f84a
> > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up some
877's
> > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states HVP is
> > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.
> >
> > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most
> > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely different.
> >
> > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal.
though rb6
> > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.
> >
> > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong, like
> > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?
> >
> > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or
F88 are
> > supported?
> >
> > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?
> >
> > Wouter van Ooijen
> >
> > -- -------
> > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu


to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions




At 12:43 PM 11/21/2004, michaelerath wrote:
>Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers and then
>borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They are
>all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip.
>Has anyone else had this problem?

Nope - not ever. Are you sure that the earlier programmers you tried
didn't damage the chips?

Why not borrow a chip from the friend who has the PS+ and try your code in
that. Or - try your buddy's code in your chips.

One thing: does your friend have the Picstart Plus (in the plastic case) or
one of the earlier Picstart programmers (bare PCB only, no case)?

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid <>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 20 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2004)
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This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.




--- In , Dwayne Reid <dwayner@p...> wrote:
> At 12:43 PM 11/21/2004, michaelerath wrote:
> >Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers
and then
> >borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work. They
are
> >all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip.
> >Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Nope - not ever. Are you sure that the earlier programmers you tried
> didn't damage the chips?
>

I've programmed about 100 PICs now and only one that had a problem but
I could have damaged it through an overly long soldering episode
(don't ask...). even that one is readable, just not writable.

I might believe 1 chip but not multiple. That just doesn't happen.
Their QA is pretty good and the processes they use are very reliable
(same for the entire industry). I bet they got damaged some where in
the process. static? wiring wrong?




--- In , "michaelerath" <michaelerath@n...>
wrote:
> Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several programmers
and
> then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered work.
They
> are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip.
> Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Michael


It's not clear what your problem is, but I program these chips every
day, using a regular programmer - not ICSP. I've never had a chip not
program.

I rarely use ICSP, as then I have to disconnect loads from the pins,
etc. As I indicated last time, if you're trying to use ICSP, and the
chips are not programming, then it's probably due to the board they
are soldered into. You have to pay attention to the "other"
components wired to the RB6, RB7, RB3, and Mclr pins. - dan michaels
www.oricomtech.com
========================
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtstofer [mailto:rstofer@p...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM
> To:
> Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP >
> The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different than
> the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the revised
> strategy, it probably won't.
>
> More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the 877
and
> 877A.
>
> You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem.
> Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive.
>
> --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr. 5v
on
> > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply tho
> > recently went to a 20v dc adapter .
> >
> > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen" <wouter@v...>
> wrote:
> > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro my
16f84a
> > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked up
some
> 877's
> > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it states
HVP
> is
> > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP programmers.
> > >
> > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that most
> > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely
different.
> > >
> > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal.
> though rb6
> > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.
> > >
> > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very wrong,
like
> > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?
> > >
> > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877 and/or
> F88 are
> > > supported?
> > >
> > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?
> > >
> > > Wouter van Ooijen
> > >
> > > -- -------
> > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> instructions
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG9nnpogp/M)8184.5584357.6650215.300117
6/
>
D=groups/S06554205:HM/EXP00538495/A$26683/R=0/SIGeeoolb0/*h
tt
> p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso`185400> click here > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
M)8184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=group
> s/S=:HM/A$26683/rand81576968>
>
> _____
>
> > Service.






Of course, there is the possibility of the famous 877 versus 877A
problem. Are you sure you have it selected properly?

--- In , "dan michaels" <dan@o...> wrote:
>
> --- In , "michaelerath" <michaelerath@n...>
> wrote:
> > Well looks like microchip screwed me. I tried several
programmers
> and
> > then borrowed a friends picstart. None of the chips I ordered
work.
> They
> > are all dead from the factory. I think im done with microchip.
> > Has anyone else had this problem?
> >
> > Michael > It's not clear what your problem is, but I program these chips
every
> day, using a regular programmer - not ICSP. I've never had a chip
not
> program.
>
> I rarely use ICSP, as then I have to disconnect loads from the
pins,
> etc. As I indicated last time, if you're trying to use ICSP, and
the
> chips are not programming, then it's probably due to the board
they
> are soldered into. You have to pay attention to the "other"
> components wired to the RB6, RB7, RB3, and Mclr pins. > - dan michaels
> www.oricomtech.com
> ======================== >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rtstofer [mailto:rstofer@p...]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:08 AM
> > To:
> > Subject: [piclist] Re: 16f877 cant use ICSP
> >
> >
> >
> > The programming algorithm for the 877A is completely different
than
> > the 877. Unless your software states that it can handle the
revised
> > strategy, it probably won't.
> >
> > More details are available by comparing the datasheets of the
877
> and
> > 877A.
> >
> > You can still buy 877s (non-A) so it isn't much of a problem.
> > Unfortunately, the 877 is a little more expensive.
> >
> > --- In , michaelerath@n... wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, im trying to use the 877A . yes, i have 13.3v on mclr.
5v
> on
> > > vdd and ground on vss. i was using a 21V (3x nimh 9v) supply
tho
> > > recently went to a 20v dc adapter .
> > >
> > > --- In , "Wouter van Ooijen"
<wouter@v...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > I have built an ICSP programmer that has worked fine fro
my
> 16f84a
> > > > > both onthe board and in their circuits. But now i picked
up
> some
> > 877's
> > > > > and 16f88's. both support HVP and LVP. In the doc's it
states
> HVP
> > is
> > > > > active all the time and works with standard HVP
programmers.
> > > >
> > > > The 877 (not the 877A!) is sufficiently like the F84A that
most
> > > > programming methods can use both. The F88 is definitely
> different.
> > > >
> > > > > I tried pulling rbs(PGM) to ground, no effect
> > > > > I stepped through the signals and all voltages are normal.
> > though rb6
> > > > > and rb7 only hit 3.37VDC.
> > > >
> > > > That is very strange. I suspect you did something very
wrong,
> like
> > > > applying Ground/Vcc or MCLR to the wrong oinsw?
> > > >
> > > > Does the programmer (and its software) state that the 877
and/or
> > F88 are
> > > > supported?
> > > >
> > > > Do you use a nice and clean +5Volt?
> > > >
> > > > Wouter van Ooijen
> > > >
> > > > -- -------
> > > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
> > > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products
> > > > docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the
> > instructions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG9nnpogp/M)8184.5584357.6650215.30011
7
> 6/
> >
>
D=groups/S06554205:HM/EXP00538495/A$26683/R=0/SIGeeoolb0/*
h
> tt
> > p:/www.netflix.com/Default?mqso`185400> click here
> >
> >
> > <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
> M)8184.5584357.6650215.3001176/D=group
> > s/S=:HM/A$26683/rand81576968>
> >
> > _____
> >
> > > Service.