Freescale's new roadmap - 9s12 not looking good?

They're going to introduce a new line of RISC 8 bit MCU's:

http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID1502582

some quotes:

"The RS08 will use the same bus structure as the more-expensive 8-bit
microcontrollers in the 9S08 family, making them compatible with
off-chip memories and peripherals. However, they will use a reduced
instruction set that supports smaller die sizes."

"Freescale will continue to develop 16-bit controllers for the
automotive market, Grimme said, but the industrial and consumer thrust
will be on the 8- and 32-bit lines."

This almost sounds bad for us 16-bit users of 9s12 devices who are not
involved in the automotive market?
	

Oh man...

Should i interprete this to meaning, that the 6812NE is 
almost "obsolete" already??

Please take this is yet another stupid thought from a 
wannabe newbie 6812 ethernet version guy...

Maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree??
WHAT should i/we be looking at instead?

Regards,
JP

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 04:35:46 -0000
> "Eric Engler" <englere.geo@engl...> wrote:
>    They're going to introduce a new line of RISC 8 bit 
>MCU's:
> 
> http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID1502582
> 
> some quotes:
> 
> "The RS08 will use the same bus structure as the 
>more-expensive 8-bit
> microcontrollers in the 9S08 family, making them 
>compatible with
> off-chip memories and peripherals. However, they will 
>use a reduced
> instruction set that supports smaller die sizes."
> 
> "Freescale will continue to develop 16-bit controllers 
>for the
> automotive market, Grimme said, but the industrial and 
>consumer thrust
> will be on the 8- and 32-bit lines."
> 
> This almost sounds bad for us 16-bit users of 9s12 
>devices who are not
> involved in the automotive market?
>
	

Eric Engler wrote:

>
http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID1502582

hmm, I see only a Microchip <-> Freescale comparison.

Why not mention AVR? A German catalog distributor lists the Atmega8 
for less than 1,5EUR in small quantities! I don't dare to ask for 
volume pricing.

You get not in the least a comparable controller from Freescale, the 
similar priced JK3 has _much_ less RAM/Flash/IO, the 9S08GT16 or AW16 
cost twice as much. What a pity.

[...]

> "Freescale will continue to develop 16-bit
controllers for the
> automotive market, Grimme said, but the industrial and consumer thrust
> will be on the 8- and 32-bit lines."
> 
> This almost sounds bad for us 16-bit users of 9s12 devices who are not
> involved in the automotive market?

Maybe. Today you have to consider that you don't get your beloved 
controller over such a long period as the HC11 is/was available. 
Buying and setting up tools is more expensive therefore. Bad if you 
don't sell a million devices...

I'm also not glad if the thousands of EUR spent for compiler and 
debugger and the many hours of learning and setting up are lost.

But look at the ARM7 success, and the pricing of some derivatives. 
You get more power for the same money as with the 9S12.

Look also at the MCF5211, Freescale list the cheapest version at 
5.19$

Oliver
-- 
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
	

Here's the architecture summary of the RS08:

http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/brochure/BRRS08CORE.pdf

Having no SP at all, and no register X (which are among the 2 best
features of the hc08/hc11/hc12), makes this look like a good chip to
be introduced a dozen years ago.

It seems painful to write a C compiler to target something like this?
	

I was speaking to had a visit with a Distributer FAE
resently about Ethernet for HC12.  He told me that
Freescale had plans for more HC12 with Ethernet and
then put a halt to those plans.

He said that ColdFire was pushing down onto the HC12
market from the top while the hc08 was pushing from
the Bottom.
	Len
	--- Eric Engler <englere.geo@engl...> wrote:

> Here's the architecture summary of the RS08:
> 
>
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/brochure/BRRS08CORE.pdf
> 
> Having no SP at all, and no register X (which are
> among the 2 best
> features of the hc08/hc11/hc12), makes this look
> like a good chip to
> be introduced a dozen years ago.
> 
> It seems painful to write a C compiler to target
> something like this?
> 
> 
> 
>
	__________________________________________________
 

len burleson wrote:

[FAE about HC12 and Ethernet]

> He said that ColdFire was pushing down onto the
HC12

well, especially for larger derivatives, this might be a good thing 
(cheap, fast controllers). I dislike the paged memory of the HC(S)12.

But I hope that we see more low end S12 derivatives, even smaller and 
cheaper than the MC9S12GC16 which questions the S08 IMO.

> market from the top while the hc08 was pushing
from
> the Bottom.

Not really!? See above. The S08 is not much cheaper but much slower. 
Only one 5V supply derivative available. HC908/S08 is my choice only 
for really small or extremly cheap applications.

Oliver
-- 
Oliver Betz, Muenchen
	

Hey guys, I read this post earlier and I wanted to make sure and
clarify (see below):

"Freescale will continue to develop 16-bit controllers for the
automotive market, Grimme said, but the industrial and consumer thrust
will be on the 8- and 32-bit lines."

This almost sounds bad for us 16-bit users of 9s12 devices who are not
involved in the automotive market?

----------------------------------
The S12s are definitely here to stay and will continue to be sold and
supported by Freescale into consumer and industrial markets as general
purpose products. The S12 roadmap has always been automotive-centric,
but the products make very good general purpose parts. Freescale will
continue to make this product roadmap available to the broad market.
As with all of our automotive products - this has the added benefit of
longer longer life cycles and additional temperature variants. As
noted in the rest of the article, moving forward there will be some
new 8 & 32-bit parts coming out that specifically target migration in
the consumer and industrial markets. 

Ed
	--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Oliver Betz" <list_ob@...> wrote:
>
> len burleson wrote:
> 
> [FAE about HC12 and Ethernet]
> 
> > He said that ColdFire was pushing down onto the HC12
> 
> well, especially for larger derivatives, this might be a good thing 
> (cheap, fast controllers). I dislike the paged memory of the HC(S)12.
> 
> But I hope that we see more low end S12 derivatives, even smaller and 
> cheaper than the MC9S12GC16 which questions the S08 IMO.
> 
> > market from the top while the hc08 was pushing from
> > the Bottom.
> 
> Not really!? See above. The S08 is not much cheaper but much slower. 
> Only one 5V supply derivative available. HC908/S08 is my choice only 
> for really small or extremly cheap applications.
> 
> Oliver
> -- 
> Oliver Betz, Muenchen
>
	

--- In 68HC12@68HC..., len burleson <wlenb@...> wrote:

> He said that ColdFire was pushing down onto the
HC12
> market from the top while the hc08 was pushing from
> the Bottom.

This is true, but sad, considering that Coldfire isn't very popular
compared to HC12. Here's some examples:

 - Freescale's web site has forums for hc08 and hc12, but not for
Coldfire.

 - Yahoo has active forums for 6808 and 6812, but not Coldfire

 - very few companies are making Coldfire development boards. Ditto
for third party compilers (although a lot of them claim to support it,
they aren't making many new releases of the Coldfire tools)

 - Freescale seems to favor the PowerPC over Coldfire; a few searches
at their web site make this clear

I personally like Coldfire, but it seems risky to use it in new
designs given its limited popularity at this time.

PowerPC's future is in doubt since the Apple pull-out.

The only 32 bit devices that are booming (aside from x86) is the Arm
variants. Although Freescale makes Arm devices, they try hard to keep
it a secret!

In summary, the hcs08 is probably going to wane because of the RS08
(also terrible because the hcs08 was just coming of age with it's
recent BDM support). The HC12 will wane because of the RS08. Coldfire
has been waning for years (although it deserved better), and
Freescale's Arm efforts are an insider's secret. RS08 is trying to
compete with extremely popular chips from Microchip and Atmel, and as
the new kid on the block it has to play catch-up. Either Freescale has
to get real serious about Coldfire real quick, or their future will be
in doubt.

Eric
	

--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "edatmot" <edatmot@...> wrote:

> The S12s are definitely here to stay and will
continue to be sold and
> supported by Freescale into consumer and industrial markets as general
> purpose products. 

I'm sure this is true for some time to come, and I certainly continue
to recommend 9s12 devices because these offer a nice programming model
and recently introduced members are low-cost and easy to use.

But I know that a great deal of attention goes into every word of
press releases, and they try to send signals by choosing their words
carefully. 

Since you seem to work for Freescale, can you please tell them that
they need to stop sending mixed signals on Coldfire? On one hand, they
have no forum for Coldfire and third party support for it is waning,
but on the other hand they're trying to "talk it up" for the
future. I
want to see it do well, but the mixed signals have to stop! Freescale
has to show us they are serious about it, and not just tell us. Why
not a forum, and why not a file area? And some more code samples that
aren't several years old would be good...

Eric
	

Indeed! The mixed signals are causing worries. I have a NE64 design 
and possibly looking to use it in a few other designs as well, no one 
seems to know for certain if this is going to stay or dissappear. The 
general opinion seems to be like, use the Coldfire as an upgrade.

The recent supply problems with the S12 hasn't helped much either. 
Given the current situation, Philips LPC or Renesas seem like a 
viable alternative. I would hate to move away from the S12 and I hope 
Freescale comes up with an assuring plan. 

Regds
Jay

--- In 68HC12@68HC..., "Eric Engler" <englere.geo@...> wrote:
>
> --- In 68HC12@68HC..., "edatmot" <edatmot@> wrote:
> 
> > The S12s are definitely here to stay and will continue to be sold 
and
> > supported by Freescale into consumer and
industrial markets as 
general
> > purpose products. 
> 
> I'm sure this is true for some time to come, and I certainly 
continue
> to recommend 9s12 devices because these offer a
nice programming 
model
> and recently introduced members are low-cost and
easy to use.
> 
> But I know that a great deal of attention goes into every word of
> press releases, and they try to send signals by choosing their words
> carefully. 
> 
> Since you seem to work for Freescale, can you please tell them that
> they need to stop sending mixed signals on Coldfire? On one hand, 
they
> have no forum for Coldfire and third party support
for it is waning,
> but on the other hand they're trying to "talk it up" for the

future. I
> want to see it do well, but the mixed signals have
to stop! 
Freescale
> has to show us they are serious about it, and not
just tell us. Why
> not a forum, and why not a file area? And some more code samples 
that
> aren't several years old would be good...
> 
> Eric
>