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interfacing a H21A1,2,3 IR detector with a BX24

Started by carolkysela April 29, 2005
I'd like to get about +/- 1/16" at a distance of 7'. 1/8" at 5' would
be about the least that could be utilized

using it to measure the height of a box above the ground and using
feedback provided to a BX24 to control motors adjusting the height...
i.e. set the height to 4' and it powers the motor to move the box to
that height above the ground
Steve Thatcher wrote:

> define your view of accurate... in other words, 1%, an inch, a foot, etc.
>
> best regards, Steve Thatcher
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carol <carolkysela@caro...>
> Sent: May 5, 2005 11:40 AM
> To: basicx@basi...
> Subject: [BasicX] measuring vertical distance in sunlight
>
> actually, i would like to explore the possibility of measuring distance
> accurately in full sunlight.... how could one most cost effectively do
> that to a distance of about seven feet with a remote sensing device to
> be pointed directly at the ground? anyone have any ideas? >
>
> *>. >
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005




you are talking about 0.15% accuracy, so you can eliminate cheap ultrasonics. The best industrial ultrasonics using Polaroid sensors are in the 1-2% range. Your application sounds like it is outside so you are going to have to deal with temperature tolerance also.

Are these boxes on a conveyor so there is also a time factor to consider?

What size range in boxes are you dealing with?

Are they truly boxes or can they be other shapes besides rectangles?

You mentioned cost, how much is in your budget for this?

best regards, Steve Thatcher

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol <carolkysela@caro...>
Sent: May 5, 2005 12:27 PM
To: basicx@basi...
Subject: Re: [BasicX] measuring vertical distance in sunlight

I'd like to get about +/- 1/16" at a distance of 7'. 1/8" at 5' would
be about the least that could be utilized

using it to measure the height of a box above the ground and using
feedback provided to a BX24 to control motors adjusting the height...
i.e. set the height to 4' and it powers the motor to move the box to
that height above the ground
Steve Thatcher wrote:

> define your view of accurate... in other words, 1%, an inch, a foot, etc.
>
> best regards, Steve Thatcher
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carol <carolkysela@caro...>
> Sent: May 5, 2005 11:40 AM
> To: basicx@basi...
> Subject: [BasicX] measuring vertical distance in sunlight
>
> actually, i would like to explore the possibility of measuring distance
> accurately in full sunlight.... how could one most cost effectively do
> that to a distance of about seven feet with a remote sensing device to
> be pointed directly at the ground? anyone have any ideas? >
>
> *>. >
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005

Yahoo! Groups Links


i need to be able to measure accurately the distance between two
objects... the sensor would be mounted in a box that also contains the
BX24 and a motor which turns so as to wind up a cord from which is
suspended the second object... the box with the BX24 never moves but
rather the second object is raised and lowered so as to attain a certain
distance from the ground... since the motor box never moves the distance
between the two boxes would yield the distance of the second box from
the ground.... no conveyor, the second box is about 3"x3" rectangular
target that can be counted on to remain DIRECTLY below any sensing
device... i have multiple possible requirements to deal with and
different budget constraints for each instance so there is no set budget
at this time, I am merely exploring alternatives.. Steve Thatcher wrote:

> you are talking about 0.15% accuracy, so you can eliminate cheap
> ultrasonics. The best industrial ultrasonics using Polaroid sensors
> are in the 1-2% range. Your application sounds like it is outside so
> you are going to have to deal with temperature tolerance also.
>
> Are these boxes on a conveyor so there is also a time factor to consider?
>
> What size range in boxes are you dealing with?
>
> Are they truly boxes or can they be other shapes besides rectangles?
>
> You mentioned cost, how much is in your budget for this?
>
> best regards, Steve Thatcher
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carol <carolkysela@caro...>
> Sent: May 5, 2005 12:27 PM
> To: basicx@basi...
> Subject: Re: [BasicX] measuring vertical distance in sunlight
>
> I'd like to get about +/- 1/16" at a distance of 7'. 1/8" at 5' would
> be about the least that could be utilized
>
> using it to measure the height of a box above the ground and using
> feedback provided to a BX24 to control motors adjusting the height...
> i.e. set the height to 4' and it powers the motor to move the box to
> that height above the ground >
> Steve Thatcher wrote:
>
> > define your view of accurate... in other words, 1%, an inch, a foot,
> etc.
> >
> > best regards, Steve Thatcher
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Carol <carolkysela@caro...>
> > Sent: May 5, 2005 11:40 AM
> > To: basicx@basi...
> > Subject: [BasicX] measuring vertical distance in sunlight
> >
> > actually, i would like to explore the possibility of measuring distance
> > accurately in full sunlight.... how could one most cost effectively do
> > that to a distance of about seven feet with a remote sensing device to
> > be pointed directly at the ground? anyone have any ideas?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *>.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005
> >
> >
>
> >. >
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005




> ... a motor which turns so as to wind up a cord from which is
suspended the second object...

If the "cord" is stable in length - like stainless aircraft wire - you
wouldn't need to remotely sense anything. You could simply wind the
wire on a drum - like a short length of 2" pipe - and count a gearhead
motor shaft. You could assure whatever degree of accuracy you need with
a slower PWM'd DC motor or a higher gear ratio. Tom
Tom Becker
--... ...--
GTBecker@GTBe... www.RighTime.com
The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
+1239 540 5700


that is pretty much what i am doing now.... a second shaft is required
because diameter change on the primary shaft alters the cord retracted
per turn in an inconsistent manner.... i currently use and encoder
wheel with a break beam sensor and it works fairly well but i'd like an
alternative that could provide an instantaneous measurement of the
distance as opposed to my current method of calculating the distance
based on counted transitions of the encoder wheel... if you miss a
count it is a problem, if the cord changes length it is a problem,
etc..... i use dacron which is pretty darned stable lengthwise
(stainless not acceptable for other reasons) but still, the very best
would be to have a distance measuring capability not dependent on the
counting of anything.... laser, ir, sound, rf, ??? Tom Becker wrote:

> > ... a motor which turns so as to wind up a cord from which is
> suspended the second object...
>
> If the "cord" is stable in length - like stainless aircraft wire - you
> wouldn't need to remotely sense anything. You could simply wind the
> wire on a drum - like a short length of 2" pipe - and count a gearhead
> motor shaft. You could assure whatever degree of accuracy you need with
> a slower PWM'd DC motor or a higher gear ratio. > Tom >
> Tom Becker
> --... ...--
> GTBecker@GTBe... www.RighTime.com
> The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
> +1239 540 5700 > *>. >
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date: 5/4/2005




> ... build a calibration table to compensate for the spooling...

For short lifts one can avoid overwraps. If the wire wraps the drum in
a single layer, very accurate vertical positioning is easy. If it can't
be wrapped in a single layer, an idler on the wire can count linear
travel.

Boaters around here suspend their vessels above the water with motorized
lifts; these are pretty hefty devices, able to lift and hold 10 tons, in
my case. Four 3/4HP winches, each on two pilings, wrap 3/8" stainless
wire on a 2" galvanized pipe; when elevated about six feet, maybe 20
turns are neatly and tightly wrapped in a single layer over about 12" of
pipe. That happens inherently; the wire guides itself into a dense,
flat wind. Commercial automatic shutoff mechanisms, which I don't have,
are simple limit switches on a leadscrew coupled to the pipe. They can
stop the lift with pretty good accuracy - maybe 1/4" - but a counter on
the motor shaft can do far better if the gearing is high.

Tom: what commercial laser ranging device are you thinking of? Tom
Tom Becker
--... ...--
GTBecker@GTBe... www.RighTime.com
The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
+1239 540 5700


Carol, Tom Becker's method is what I would normally use and build a
calibration table to compensate for the spooling of cable. Still, you
don't know how the wire is going to spool. If it get's crossed, all
bets are off... At 1/16" accuracy, it seems to me a commercial LASER
sensor would be the best choice depending on budget.

- Tom

--- In basicx@basi..., Carol <carolkysela@y...> wrote:
> that is pretty much what i am doing now.... a second shaft is
required
> because diameter change on the primary shaft alters the cord
retracted
> per turn in an inconsistent manner.... i currently use and encoder
> wheel with a break beam sensor and it works fairly well but i'd
like an
> alternative that could provide an instantaneous measurement of the
> distance as opposed to my current method of calculating the
distance
> based on counted transitions of the encoder wheel... if you miss a
> count it is a problem, if the cord changes length it is a problem,
> etc..... i use dacron which is pretty darned stable lengthwise
> (stainless not acceptable for other reasons) but still, the very
best
> would be to have a distance measuring capability not dependent on
the
> counting of anything.... laser, ir, sound, rf, ??? > Tom Becker wrote:
>
> > > ... a motor which turns so as to wind up a cord from which is
> > suspended the second object...
> >
> > If the "cord" is stable in length - like stainless aircraft wire -
you
> > wouldn't need to remotely sense anything. You could simply wind
the
> > wire on a drum - like a short length of 2" pipe - and count a
gearhead
> > motor shaft. You could assure whatever degree of accuracy you
need with
> > a slower PWM'd DC motor or a higher gear ratio.
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Becker
> > --... ...--
> > GTBecker@R... www.RighTime.com
> > The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
> > +1239 540 5700
> >
> >
> > *>.
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------
-----
> >
> >No virus found in this incoming message.
> >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.5 - Release Date:
5/4/2005
> >
> >


Tom, I thought about an idler which would eliminate any problems with
spooling but it just seems like too much mechanical 'slop' to meet
the 1/16" accuracy but I'm just guessing here. BTW, speaking of
vessels, I use to work on the fishing fleet here in Oregon back in
the 70's.

As far as a LASER sensor, I don't have a particular vendor in mind
but they do exist. You could even hack a Craftsman or Radio Shack
unit for hobby use but I'm not sure about commercial vendors or
prices other than seeing them in various industry publications.

- Tom

--- In basicx@basi..., "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote:
> > ... build a calibration table to compensate for the spooling...
>
> For short lifts one can avoid overwraps. If the wire wraps the
drum in
> a single layer, very accurate vertical positioning is easy. If it
can't
> be wrapped in a single layer, an idler on the wire can count linear
> travel.
>
> Boaters around here suspend their vessels above the water with
motorized
> lifts; these are pretty hefty devices, able to lift and hold 10
tons, in
> my case. Four 3/4HP winches, each on two pilings, wrap 3/8"
stainless
> wire on a 2" galvanized pipe; when elevated about six feet, maybe 20
> turns are neatly and tightly wrapped in a single layer over about
12" of
> pipe. That happens inherently; the wire guides itself into a dense,
> flat wind. Commercial automatic shutoff mechanisms, which I don't
have,
> are simple limit switches on a leadscrew coupled to the pipe. They
can
> stop the lift with pretty good accuracy - maybe 1/4" - but a
counter on
> the motor shaft can do far better if the gearing is high.
>
> Tom: what commercial laser ranging device are you thinking of? > Tom >
> Tom Becker
> --... ...--
> GTBecker@R... www.RighTime.com
> The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
> +1239 540 5700


> ... hack a Craftsman or Radio Shack unit...

I'm not aware that a consumer laser rangefinder for short distances
exists, Tom; the short-range distance devices are usually ultrasonic, I
believe, and the laser devices that fill the shelves are just straight
line makers.

Golf and hunting laser rangefinders can't see less than 30 feet or so -
and then with poor resolution of a yard or meter - but can range a
building at 1000 feet; they won't help with this app. Tom
Tom Becker
--... ...--
GTBecker@GTBe... www.RighTime.com
The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
+1239 540 5700


Tom, I was in wrong about the Sears/Craftsman unit. It uses a LASER
for pointing and a US sensor for measuring. I did a google search of
LASER distance measuring devices and found many with a resolution
from 3mm and below. In anycase, this is a 'dead horse'...

- Tom

--- In basicx@basi..., "Tom Becker" <gtbecker@r...> wrote:
> > ... hack a Craftsman or Radio Shack unit...
>
> I'm not aware that a consumer laser rangefinder for short distances
> exists, Tom; the short-range distance devices are usually
ultrasonic, I
> believe, and the laser devices that fill the shelves are just
straight
> line makers.
>
> Golf and hunting laser rangefinders can't see less than 30 feet or
so -
> and then with poor resolution of a yard or meter - but can range a
> building at 1000 feet; they won't help with this app. > Tom >
> Tom Becker
> --... ...--
> GTBecker@R... www.RighTime.com
> The RighTime Clock Company, Inc., Cape Coral, Florida USA
> +1239 540 5700