Actually, I only have one programmer - the Warp 13A. I just upgraded the unit to 20 MHz and new firmware and now it is useless. Furthermore, Newfound Electronics has posted a 'we aren't providing customer support' notice on their web site. I ordered a replacement 16F876 from a guy with an Amazon store - perhaps that will solve the problem. So, I take back any prior recommendations for the Warp 13A - when the manufacturer decides to discontinue customer support it is time to change to something else. Too bad, it worked really well for both plug-in and ICSP. Well, until the upgrade went sideways! I also ordered a new programmer from melabs - their serial unit. We'll see how that goes. Should be here in a couple of days. For the most part I use a bootloader in the 16F877 that comes from www.junun.org and is used in the MiniSumo Mark III. I just find it easier to work with the bootloader and I often want serial I/O on the prototype board anyway. Plus I like developing on the larger device. I was looking at that pong game and have bought the parts - that's why I need a programmer. I built a copy of the real Pong back in '74 or '75 and it took 96 integrated circuits. Can you imagine the amount of wire-wrap? It worked very well because it WAS the real deal - copied direct from the original schematics. --- In , "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> wrote: > Thanks, looks like it used parellex assembler for some pseudo-ops or > whatever he called them, so I'll just port around that, plus I'll > have to port for a uController that I like working with/can program. > 18F252 should work. > > I am suprised, I would think of anyone on this list you would have > number of programmers. I imagine you and Chad Russell with about 30 > odd different homebrew and professional programmers, and Wouter w/ > double that. > > Chas > > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > Here is a pong game for NTSC - it does all the timing to generate > > horizontal and vertical synch as well as B/W video. I haven't > been > > able to implement it because I am having a problem with my PIC > > programmer. Should work... > > > > http://dt.prohosting.com/pic/pong.html > > > > --- In , "Bert Drake" <Bert@D...> wrote: > > > I may be wrong but I thought PAL was 50Hz and NTSC was 60Hz. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Leon Heller > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 2:33 PM > > > Subject: Re: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> > > > To: <> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:19 PM > > > Subject: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > > I have been looking for a NTSC Composite Video Pattern > > Generator. A > > > > simple B&W is pattern is all I need. I just need to verify > > that my > > > > video input is working. I wanted to make a small pic based > one > > and I > > > > have known about > > > > http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/pic/howto.php > for > > a > > > > while. Unfortunately he did it in PAL and didn't include the > > bulk of > > > > the source code on how he made his pattern. I don't know > > enough > > > > about TV systems to figure how to convert the signal from > PAL > > to > > > > NTSC anyways. > > > > > > > > Anyone seen this done? > > > > > > Aren't PAL and NSTC monochrome (B&W) the same? > > > > > > Leon > > > -- > > > Leon Heller, G1HSM > > > http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/ > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow > the > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- -- > -- > > ----------- > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > a.. To |
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composite video pattern generator
Thought I heard my name. Imagination can get you in trouble, especially with blind dates, wives and husbands. I'm not into birthen' no programmers. My aim is to get progam into chip, that is all. I have PicStart, Quickwriter, and distributors. Regards, Chad :D --- Chas Douvier <> wrote: <<< snip >>> > > I am suprised, I would think of anyone on this list you would have > number of programmers. I imagine you and Chad Russell with about 30 > odd different homebrew and professional programmers, and Wouter w/ > double that. > > Chas <<< snip >>> ===== My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. __________________________________ |
Wow, what a nightmare, I've only ever wirewrapped one project, that was my ELF II and that was well after it was out of production. I got it in a kit form from a guy I worked with at an electronics store when I was 19. I am a big fan of my PICDEM 2. I think it was only $199 from Digikey, it's nice and small, the PCB is sort of big, but it works well for programming, an if you feel like using their setup you can do some testing on the board as well. I generally use all the same ports and I soldered in .1 IN molex connectors to jumper to breadboard, works out very nice, I don't know how anyone gets by without ICSP unless they are building something small. I have only used the 16F877A, 18F252 and 18F452. I favour the two 18F's and don't really like using the 16F's anymore just because of the extended instructions and I got used to them. Don't really care about cost, I don't do this for a living. Charles --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > Actually, I only have one programmer - the Warp 13A. I just > upgraded the unit to 20 MHz and new firmware and now it is useless. > Furthermore, Newfound Electronics has posted a 'we aren't providing > customer support' notice on their web site. I ordered a replacement > 16F876 from a guy with an Amazon store - perhaps that will solve the > problem. So, I take back any prior recommendations for the Warp > 13A - when the manufacturer decides to discontinue customer support > it is time to change to something else. Too bad, it worked really > well for both plug-in and ICSP. Well, until the upgrade went > sideways! > > I also ordered a new programmer from melabs - their serial unit. > We'll see how that goes. Should be here in a couple of days. > > For the most part I use a bootloader in the 16F877 that comes from > www.junun.org and is used in the MiniSumo Mark III. I just find it > easier to work with the bootloader and I often want serial I/O on > the prototype board anyway. Plus I like developing on the larger > device. > > I was looking at that pong game and have bought the parts - that's > why I need a programmer. I built a copy of the real Pong back > in '74 or '75 and it took 96 integrated circuits. Can you imagine > the amount of wire-wrap? It worked very well because it WAS the > real deal - copied direct from the original schematics. > > --- In , "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> wrote: > > Thanks, looks like it used parellex assembler for some pseudo- ops > or > > whatever he called them, so I'll just port around that, plus I'll > > have to port for a uController that I like working with/can > program. > > 18F252 should work. > > > > I am suprised, I would think of anyone on this list you would have > > number of programmers. I imagine you and Chad Russell with about > 30 > > odd different homebrew and professional programmers, and Wouter w/ > > double that. > > > > Chas > > > > --- In , "rtstofer" <rstofer@p...> wrote: > > > Here is a pong game for NTSC - it does all the timing to > generate > > > horizontal and vertical synch as well as B/W video. I haven't > > been > > > able to implement it because I am having a problem with my PIC > > > programmer. Should work... > > > > > > http://dt.prohosting.com/pic/pong.html > > > > > > --- In , "Bert Drake" <Bert@D...> wrote: > > > > I may be wrong but I thought PAL was 50Hz and NTSC was 60Hz. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Leon Heller > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 2:33 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> > > > > To: <> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:19 PM > > > > Subject: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been looking for a NTSC Composite Video Pattern > > > Generator. A > > > > > simple B&W is pattern is all I need. I just need to verify > > > that my > > > > > video input is working. I wanted to make a small pic based > > one > > > and I > > > > > have known about > > > > > http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/pic/howto.php > > for > > > a > > > > > while. Unfortunately he did it in PAL and didn't include > the > > > bulk of > > > > > the source code on how he made his pattern. I don't know > > > enough > > > > > about TV systems to figure how to convert the signal from > > PAL > > > to > > > > > NTSC anyways. > > > > > > > > > > Anyone seen this done? > > > > > > > > Aren't PAL and NSTC monochrome (B&W) the same? > > > > > > > > Leon > > > > -- > > > > Leon Heller, G1HSM > > > > http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/ > > > > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow > > the > > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- -- > -- > > -- > > > ----------- > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > a.. To |
On the PIC-Pong and Tetris site the author says
colour on TV with PICs isn't possible due to the slow speed of the PIC. I
remember the Atari 2600 - It ran a 1.19MHz Video chip (TIA) and it generated
many colours on the screen?
Shouldn't a PIC running at 4Mhz-8Mhz-16Mhz
-faster be able to do the same. I mean the Atari 2600 only had 128 Bytes of RAM
and the CPU was half-utilised the entire time at 1.19Mhz?
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Depends on how you generate the color subcarrier. Probably a separate circuit on the Atari. In NTSC the color subcarrier is a phase modulated 3.58 Mhz signal. To directly generate it with DAC obviously you need to be much higher in clock freq. Chad --- Nigel Symes <> wrote: > On the PIC-Pong and Tetris site the author says colour on TV with > PICs isn't possible due to the slow speed of the PIC. I remember the > Atari 2600 - It ran a 1.19MHz Video chip (TIA) and it generated many > colours on the screen? > > Shouldn't a PIC running at 4Mhz-8Mhz-16Mhz -faster be able to do the > same. I mean the Atari 2600 only had 128 Bytes of RAM and the CPU was > half-utilised the entire time at 1.19Mhz? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: rtstofer > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:25 AM > Subject: [piclist] Re: composite video pattern generator > Here is a pong game for NTSC - it does all the timing to generate > horizontal and vertical synch as well as B/W video. I haven't been > > able to implement it because I am having a problem with my PIC > programmer. Should work... > > http://dt.prohosting.com/pic/pong.html > > --- In , "Bert Drake" <Bert@D...> wrote: > > I may be wrong but I thought PAL was 50Hz and NTSC was 60Hz. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Leon Heller > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 2:33 PM > > Subject: Re: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> > > To: <> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:19 PM > > Subject: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > I have been looking for a NTSC Composite Video Pattern > Generator. A > > > simple B&W is pattern is all I need. I just need to verify > that my > > > video input is working. I wanted to make a small pic based > one > and I > > > have known about > > > http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/pic/howto.php for > > a > > > while. Unfortunately he did it in PAL and didn't include the > bulk of > > > the source code on how he made his pattern. I don't know > enough > > > about TV systems to figure how to convert the signal from PAL > > to > > > NTSC anyways. > > > > > > Anyone seen this done? > > > > Aren't PAL and NSTC monochrome (B&W) the same? > > > > Leon > > -- > > Leon Heller, G1HSM > > http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/ > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > ----------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > instructions > ------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To ===== My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. _______________________________ |
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There are video encoder chips that will take RGB inputs are give NTSC or PAL (selectable) outputs. Analog Devices makes an entire series of devices such as the ADV7303A. Finding them in stock may be a problem... --- In , Chad Russel <chadrussel@y...> wrote: > Depends on how you generate the color subcarrier. Probably a separate > circuit on the Atari. In NTSC the color subcarrier is a phase > modulated 3.58 Mhz signal. To directly generate it with DAC obviously > you need to be much higher in clock freq. > > Chad > > --- Nigel Symes <symesbris@h...> wrote: > > > On the PIC-Pong and Tetris site the author says colour on TV with > > PICs isn't possible due to the slow speed of the PIC. I remember the > > Atari 2600 - It ran a 1.19MHz Video chip (TIA) and it generated many > > colours on the screen? > > > > Shouldn't a PIC running at 4Mhz-8Mhz-16Mhz -faster be able to do the > > same. I mean the Atari 2600 only had 128 Bytes of RAM and the CPU was > > half-utilised the entire time at 1.19Mhz? > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: rtstofer > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 6:25 AM > > Subject: [piclist] Re: composite video pattern generator > > > > > > Here is a pong game for NTSC - it does all the timing to generate > > horizontal and vertical synch as well as B/W video. I haven't been > > > > able to implement it because I am having a problem with my PIC > > programmer. Should work... > > > > http://dt.prohosting.com/pic/pong.html > > > > --- In , "Bert Drake" <Bert@D...> wrote: > > > I may be wrong but I thought PAL was 50Hz and NTSC was 60Hz. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Leon Heller > > > To: > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 2:33 PM > > > Subject: Re: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chas Douvier" <chas@i...> > > > To: <> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 8:19 PM > > > Subject: [piclist] composite video pattern generator > > > > > > > > > > I have been looking for a NTSC Composite Video Pattern > > Generator. A > > > > simple B&W is pattern is all I need. I just need to verify > > that my > > > > video input is working. I wanted to make a small pic based > > one > > and I > > > > have known about > > > > http://www.rickard.gunee.com/projects/video/pic/howto.php for > > > > a > > > > while. Unfortunately he did it in PAL and didn't include the > > bulk of > > > > the source code on how he made his pattern. I don't know > > enough > > > > about TV systems to figure how to convert the signal from PAL > > > > to > > > > NTSC anyways. > > > > > > > > Anyone seen this done? > > > > > > Aren't PAL and NSTC monochrome (B&W) the same? > > > > > > Leon > > > -- > > > Leon Heller, G1HSM > > > http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/ > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > > > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- -- > > ----------- > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > a.. To > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the > > instructions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- ----------- > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > a.. To > > > > > ===== > My software has no bugs, only undocumented features. > > _______________________________ > |
I am building my system on a 18F252. I find that between timing cycles (bit banging, which was probably not as much of an overhead problem on something specifically designed for the job) I find I have a lot of extra machine cycles as long as the image doesn’t change to much (like pong). However you run out of machine cycles quickly just changing the D/A for the most basic video info, and if it’s suppose to move that’s much worse. I don’t think the PIC could pull off bit banging color, not even if I was running at 40Mhz. If it is possible I think you won’t get much done other than generating color bars. I don’t think you could pull off a game or whatnot without some external chip/circuitry.
I’ll post my code and schematic when I am done and you can take a peek. I am going to probably run at 10Mhz, and just got done w/ the code block diagram. It’s pretty simple to do after enough reading.
Charles
From:
Nigel Symes
[mailto:s...@hotmail.com]
On the PIC-Pong and Tetris site the author says colour on TV with PICs isn't possible due to the slow speed of the PIC. I remember the Atari 2600 - It ran a 1.19MHz Video chip (TIA) and it generated many colours on the screen?
Shouldn't a PIC running at 4Mhz-8Mhz-16Mhz -faster be able to do the same. I mean the Atari 2600 only had 128 Bytes of RAM and the CPU was half-utilised the entire time at 1.19Mhz?
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If people want a simple color NTSC video interface for a PIC then let me know. I made one for a project which had 320x240 pixels, 16 colors and support for 2 video buffers.
I estimate the board would sell for about $100 and would have a serial and parallel interface.
Regards, Trampas
From:
Charles Douvier
[mailto:c...@intellstat.com]
I am building my system on a 18F252. I find that between timing cycles (bit banging, which was probably not as much of an overhead problem on something specifically designed for the job) I find I have a lot of extra machine cycles as long as the image doesn’t change to much (like pong). However you run out of machine cycles quickly just changing the D/A for the most basic video info, and if it’s suppose to move that’s much worse. I don’t think the PIC could pull off bit banging color, not even if I was running at 40Mhz. If it is possible I think you won’t get much done other than generating color bars. I don’t think you could pull off a game or whatnot without some external chip/circuitry.
I’ll post my code and schematic when I am done and you can take a peek. I am going to probably run at 10Mhz, and just got done w/ the code block diagram. It’s pretty simple to do after enough reading.
Charles
From:
Nigel Symes
[mailto:s...@hotmail.com]
On the PIC-Pong and Tetris site the author says colour on TV with PICs isn't possible due to the slow speed of the PIC. I remember the Atari 2600 - It ran a 1.19MHz Video chip (TIA) and it generated many colours on the screen?
Shouldn't a PIC running at 4Mhz-8Mhz-16Mhz -faster be able to do the same. I mean the Atari 2600 only had 128 Bytes of RAM and the CPU was half-utilised the entire time at 1.19Mhz?
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