Forums

M68KIT912DP256

Started by hc12 January 7, 2003
Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> there is only one
> BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
should consider coolers, or even champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________



Hi,

I guess the Nohau's argument will be valid if your are working for a company
and
the boss is breathing down your neck for results - just suggest that 'other'
more productive
tool for $2000 and if he does not quickly back off, you might consider yer
self a new toy
commin soon.

However if you work for yersleves, I guess you can try it on your spouse -
or skip a coupala
beers.

Frank van der Merwe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Furber" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 > Hi Don,
>
> > From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> > there is only one
> > BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> > problems, and
> > there is nothing to do about it.
>
> Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
> the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
> don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
> these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
> for.
>
> > They don't have any of the reported
> > problems here.
> > Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
> LPT
> > port or a
> > dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
> is
> > more expensive
> > than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
> your
> > frustration,
> > and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
> up
> > with problems.
>
> You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
> offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
> Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
> P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
> beer, and some can afford champaigne.
>
> It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
> other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
> should consider coolers, or even champaigne.
>
> Bfn,
>
> Bob Furber
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
> www.microcommander.com
>
> Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
> ..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
> __________________________________________________________ >
> -------------------- >
> ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




At 09:57 AM 1/9/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
>offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
>Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
>P&E debugger/cable offers very good value.

I think that's probably the key. There are a large number of problems with
the P&E BDM modules, some serious and some minor. Support is one of them.
[We sent them a question about four weeks ago, and never got an
answer. Fortunately, we really no longer expect one, as we have several
left over from two years ago.]

Right now our biggest problem with the P&E BDM is that it will not support
moving memory (and RAM) around on the D60A. Just crashes or hangs. Now
that we know it, we at least can work around it... but it would have been
nice to have known up front. And it would be nice to think that there
would eventually be upgrades and improvements -- get the help files fixed,
add some more command options (like being able to do a "BR
variable+nn"). But I am pretty sure P&E considers this to be a "matured"
product. I haven't seen anything change on it in years.

Still, and I sincerely believe this, the P&E BDM is a great value. For 10%
of what many of the others cost it does 90% of what they do. That makes it
an important product for many small shops, and one that I would (with
caveats) highly recommend.

jmk
-----------
James M. Knox
TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
Austin, Tx 78721
-----------


Hi Bob,

About expiriences - I hate waiting 2 weeks for new chips. I hate waiting
month for tools too.
And my BDM debugger/flash burner is produced by
PICDEM_board+PIC16F876+MAX232+cables+some_houers_of_fun Ltd . There's great
support - just think about new feature or uncommon target reset driver and
you have it . Burner eats everything:
aligned/misaligned/20 and 80 bytes per line S records are equally good
programmed. Disadvantages: only D60A
and Dx128A supported but it's because nobody asked support team. I tried
NoICE with this
and it works (noice serial protocol). Edward > Hi Don,
>
> > From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> > there is only one
> > BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> > problems, and
> > there is nothing to do about it.
>
> Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
> the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
> don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
> these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
> for.
>
> > They don't have any of the reported
> > problems here.
> > Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
> LPT
> > port or a
> > dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
> is
> > more expensive
> > than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
> your
> > frustration,
> > and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
> up
> > with problems.
>
> You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
> offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
> Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
> P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
> beer, and some can afford champaigne.
>
> It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
> other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
> should consider coolers, or even champaigne.
>
> Bfn,
>
> Bob Furber





>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a

Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.

Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
(http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts
(http://www.technologicalarts.com)
Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
(http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer Systems
(http://pemicro.com)
Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
(http://www.axman.com)

The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility
issues.

The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.

There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
of any. Has anyone else heard of one?

Best regards, John Hartman

NoICE Debugging Tools
http://www.noicedebugger.com


John,
thanks for the survey.
We also need the debuggers to support the s12 PLL running faster than
8MHz. (Motorola bugs 'n all.)
cheers. Bruce

John Hartman (NoICE) wrote:

>>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
>>
>
> Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
> NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.
>
> Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
> (http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
> Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts
> (http://www.technologicalarts.com)
> Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
> (http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
> P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer Systems
> (http://pemicro.com)
> Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
> (http://www.axman.com)
>
> The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
> with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility
> issues.
>
> The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
> harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
> end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.
>
> There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
> of any. Has anyone else heard of one?
>
> Best regards, John Hartman
>
> NoICE Debugging Tools
> http://www.noicedebugger.com


It is ridiculous that the P&E Multilink cable still requires a standard
parallel port. Throw in XP and we have not been able to get our cable to
work yet It will work under Win 98 but fails under XP even with the port
configured to use interrupts. The other issue I have with a standard
parallel port is the only one you can have is the one built on your mother
board. Under XP if you install a PCI parallel port you will be unable to
set it to the standard I/O address for the standard parallel port. This
is fine if you can dedicate your computer to every development project.
What if you need more than one BDM cable that requires a standard parallel
port. Then you have to use an A/B switch but if your pod is powered you
can damage the emulator pod or the computer if you forget to power off
between changes of port.

Rod Niner
.

Bob Furber <>
01/09/2003 12:57 PM
Please respond to 68HC12 To:
cc:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression
> there is only one
> BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price.
Notwithstanding, many users, including myself, find that the
P&E debugger/cable offers very good value. Some people drink
beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with
other debuggers and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers
should consider coolers, or even champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________
--------------------
">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


Seems like most of these problems would be solved with a USB-based BDM
device. I hope that P&E is working very hard on such a device. 607-656-2597 -----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 7:41 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 It is ridiculous that the P&E Multilink cable still requires a standard
parallel port. Throw in XP and we have not been able to get our cable to
work yet It will work under Win 98 but fails under XP even with the port
configured to use interrupts. The other issue I have with a standard
parallel port is the only one you can have is the one built on your mother
board. Under XP if you install a PCI parallel port you will be unable to
set it to the standard I/O address for the standard parallel port. This
is fine if you can dedicate your computer to every development project.
What if you need more than one BDM cable that requires a standard parallel
port. Then you have to use an A/B switch but if your pod is powered you
can damage the emulator pod or the computer if you forget to power off
between changes of port.

Rod Niner
.

Bob Furber <>
01/09/2003 12:57 PM
Please respond to 68HC12 To:
cc:
Subject: RE: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 Hi Don,

> From reading these postings, one can get the impression there is only
> one BDM emulator available for the HC12/HCS12, and it has many
> problems, and
> there is nothing to do about it.

Actually, I believe that there are very few problems with
the P&E debuger and debug cable and and even fewer that
don't have a simple, inexpensive solutions. We hear about
these problems because ..well, that is what this list is
for.

> They don't have any of the reported
> problems here.
> Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB,
LPT
> port or a
> dedicated ISA card. Other vendors exist as well. Yes, it
is
> more expensive
> than the P&E, but on the other hand it will save some of
your
> frustration,
> and will return its investment by saving the time you mess
up
> with problems.

You make some good points. The Nohau emulator may indeed
offer many advantages over the P&E debugger ..for a price. Notwithstanding,
many users, including myself, find that the P&E debugger/cable offers very
good value. Some people drink beer, and some can afford champaigne.

It would be interesting to hear about users experiences with other debuggers
and BDM modules. Maybe us beer drinkers should consider coolers, or even
champaigne.

Bfn,

Bob Furber

__________________________________________________________

Connect your micro to the internet the easy way
www.microcommander.com

Microcontroller with an obscenity of I/O & features
..in a small footprint www.steroidmicros.com
__________________________________________________________
--------------------
">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--------------------
">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Hi Bruce,

HCS12 parts are supposed to derive the BDM communications clock directly
from the crystal so changes in the bus speed via the PLL should have no
affect on BDM SYNC. This worked fine in earlier versions of the DP256 and I
believe it works fine in all of the other HCS12 parts.

However, MCS912DP256 (and DT256, DJ256, DG256) mask 2 (0K79X) and 3 (1K79X)
a new problem was introduced (2001) and errata was issued "BDM LOSES SYNC
WHEN USING PLL AT HIGH FREQUENCIES"
http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MC9S12DP256BMSE3.pdf

As a result of this errata, both Cosmic and P&E modified their tools. The
Cosmic ZAP BDM debugger includes an option for chips with this errata that
allows transparent debugging through a PLL bus speed change. The SYNC
option has actually been in use for over a year. The debugger/cable also
work with the more standard BDM SYNC which is the default out of reset. Best Regards,
Michael Burns
Cosmic Software -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce McMillan [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:31 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [68HC12] M68KIT912DP256 John,
thanks for the survey.
We also need the debuggers to support the s12 PLL running faster than
8MHz. (Motorola bugs 'n all.)
cheers. Bruce

John Hartman (NoICE) wrote:

>>Well, there are other BDM emulators for the HC12/HCS12 available in the
>>market. And guess what? They don't have any of the reported problems here.
>>Nohau is selling a BDM for $1990, plugging to either USB, LPT port or a
>>
>
> Doron is right. Here are some that have worked well for me (supported by
> NoICE), all costing less than ($full featured)/10.
>
> Elektronikladen ComPOD12, available from MCT Elektronikladen GbR
> (http://www.elektronikladen.de/noicebdm12.html)
> Technological Arts microBDM12SX, available from Technological Arts

> (http://www.technologicalarts.com)
> Kevin Ross BDM12, available from Kevin Ross
> (http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html)
> P&E CABLE12 and MULTILINK, available from P&E Microcomputer
Systems
> (http://pemicro.com)
> Axiom AX-BDM12, available from Axiom Manufacturing Company
> (http://www.axman.com)
>
> The first three are serial devices. Slower than parallel port, but happy
> with longer cables from the PC, and no driver voodoo or port compatibility

> issues.
>
> The parallel ports ones generally work well, but Billy G. keeps making it
> harder to connect widgets to parallel ports, and has decreed the eventual
> end of both parallel and serial ports on PCs.
>
> There is a crying need for a USB BMD pod for under $300, but I don't know
> of any. Has anyone else heard of one?
>
> Best regards, John Hartman
>
> NoICE Debugging Tools
> http://www.noicedebugger.com

--------------------
">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Hi Dave, all,

the ComPOD12 works well over a USB/serial adapter, e.g. using this
combination:

http://www.elektronikladen.de/en_starprog.html
http://www.ftdichip.com/us232.htm

Happy HC(S)12ing!
Oliver
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:22:31 -0500
Kellogg Dave <> wrote:

> Seems like most of these problems would be solved with a USB-based BDM
> device. I hope that P&E is working very hard on such a device. > 607-656-2597