st.com now a flash only website ?

I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
the related documents page links in the process.

Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
the ST microcontroller website ?

Thanks,

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
<clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:

>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
>the related documents page links in the process.
>
>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
>the ST microcontroller website ?

Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.,
Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it was
just a blank page.

<clickety click>

Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "This
application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warning
but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo,
sparkles!" Feh.

Try the various 'net datasheet archives?

-- 
Rich Webb     Norfolk, VA

Rich Webb wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
> <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
> 
>>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
>>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
>>the related documents page links in the process.
>>
>>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
>>the ST microcontroller website ?
> 
> Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.,
> Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it was
> just a blank page.
> 
> <clickety click>
> 
> Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "This
> application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warning
> but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo,
> sparkles!" Feh.
> 
> Try the various 'net datasheet archives?

My standard practice is to link to the manufacturers' data sheets through 
Digikey product pages.  This seems still to be working.  I just linked in to 
<http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/2168/lm217l.pdf> through 
Digikey, and to <http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/2154.pdf> through 
dipmicro's catalog pages.

Digikey.com was out of action briefly this morning, after I read these 
posts, which made for some exciting suspicions.

	Mel.

On 2010-12-09, Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>
>>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
>>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
>>the related documents page links in the process.
>>
>>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
>>the ST microcontroller website ?
>
> Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.,
> Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it was
> just a blank page.
>
><clickety click>
>
> Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "This
> application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warning
> but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo,
> sparkles!" Feh.
>
> Try the various 'net datasheet archives?
>

Thanks for checking.

Unfortunately it's not just the datasheet I am interested in, but the whole
ecosystem of application and technical notes as well which, until today, were
nicely organised into collections of related documents on static HTML pages.

I've worked with ARM boards in recent years, but it's been on the larger
processors such as Intel's IXP425. This is the first time I've tried using
a ARM processor as small as a ARM7TDMI MCU and I don't know what ARM7TDMI
specific issues (if any) I am going to encounter.

Although I had a strong preference for Atmel (their software support kits
are very GNU friendly), the ST MCUs have more UART ports which was a advantage
for this project. However, I have now gone for a board using Atmel's SAM7
and will implement the project slightly differently.

Congratulations ST marketing, you just lost a sale (even if it was just a
single board. :-))

Personally, I think requiring Flash for basic website access is unacceptable
for a technical website. (I regard Flash as a major security weak point along
with causing usability issues and manage just fine without it elsewhere.)

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

On Dec 9, 7:07=A0pm, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-
Earth.UFP> wrote:
> On 2010-12-09, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
> ><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
>
> >>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
> >>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
> >>the related documents page links in the process.
>
> >>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
> >>the ST microcontroller website ?
>
> > Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.,
> > Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it wa=
s
> > just a blank page.
>
> ><clickety click>
>
> > Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "This
> > application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warnin=
g
> > but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo=
,
> > sparkles!" Feh.
>
> > Try the various 'net datasheet archives?
>
> Thanks for checking.
>
> Unfortunately it's not just the datasheet I am interested in, but the who=
le
> ecosystem of application and technical notes as well which, until today, =
were
> nicely organised into collections of related documents on static HTML pag=
es.
>
> I've worked with ARM boards in recent years, but it's been on the larger
> processors such as Intel's IXP425. This is the first time I've tried usin=
g
> a ARM processor as small as a ARM7TDMI MCU and I don't know what ARM7TDMI
> specific issues (if any) I am going to encounter.
>
> Although I had a strong preference for Atmel (their software support kits
> are very GNU friendly), the ST MCUs have more UART ports which was a adva=
ntage
> for this project. However, I have now gone for a board using Atmel's SAM7
> and will implement the project slightly differently.
>
> Congratulations ST marketing, you just lost a sale (even if it was just a
> single board. :-))
>
> Personally, I think requiring Flash for basic website access is unaccepta=
ble
> for a technical website. (I regard Flash as a major security weak point a=
long
> with causing usability issues and manage just fine without it elsewhere.)
>
> Simon.

I agree wholeheartedly!  I just don't like Flash on general
principals.  If I have to have some third party application beyond a
browser just to view a web site, then it is a web site I don't need!
I don't have Flash installed on Firefox and don't plan to install it
anytime soon.  Mostly it is just the extra bandwidth used by flash
sites, but also the fact that I am coerced into using software I don't
want is a major strike against.  The funny part is that ST will never
figure this out either as even the contacts page requires Flash!!!

But if I remember correctly, the ST site was never a joy to navigate.
I have always felt that TI has a grade A site almost the equal to
Digikey.  Obviously someone has figured out that the Internet is a
boon to sales...

Long live TI and Digikey!

Rick

In article <idrr04$uob$1@news.eternal-september.org>, 
clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP says...
> On 2010-12-09, Rich Webb <bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
> ><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
> >
> >>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
> >>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many of
> >>the related documents page links in the process.
> >>
> >>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
> >>the ST microcontroller website ?
> >
> > Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.,
> > Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it was
> > just a blank page.
> >
> ><clickety click>
> >
> > Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "This
> > application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warning
> > but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo,
> > sparkles!" Feh.
> >
> > Try the various 'net datasheet archives?
> >
> 
> Thanks for checking.
> 
> Unfortunately it's not just the datasheet I am interested in, but the whole
> ecosystem of application and technical notes as well which, until today, were
> nicely organised into collections of related documents on static HTML pages.
> 
> I've worked with ARM boards in recent years, but it's been on the larger
> processors such as Intel's IXP425. This is the first time I've tried using
> a ARM processor as small as a ARM7TDMI MCU and I don't know what ARM7TDMI
> specific issues (if any) I am going to encounter.
> 
> Although I had a strong preference for Atmel (their software support kits
> are very GNU friendly), the ST MCUs have more UART ports which was a advantage
> for this project. However, I have now gone for a board using Atmel's SAM7
> and will implement the project slightly differently.
> 
> Congratulations ST marketing, you just lost a sale (even if it was just a
> single board. :-))
> 
> Personally, I think requiring Flash for basic website access is unacceptable
> for a technical website. (I regard Flash as a major security weak point along
> with causing usability issues and manage just fine without it elsewhere.)
> 
>
Yep, it was totally useless when I went to the site on my IPAD.   I have 
other ways to get to the PDFs,  but  I do a lot of evening browsing on
the IPAD.

Mark Borgerson

In article <fc55873e-b161-43e5-a05a-987c9a500820
@y23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, gnuarm@gmail.com says...
> On Dec 9, 7:07=A0pm, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-
> Earth.UFP> wrote:
> > On 2010-12-09, Rich Webb <bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
> > ><clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
> >
> > >>I just tried to find some str711 documents and it appears st.com is
> > >>now a flash only website. :-( It also looks like ST have broken many =
of
> > >>the related documents page links in the process.
> >
> > >>Can anyone confirm this and do you know of a non-flash version of
> > >>the ST microcontroller website ?
> >
> > > Navigation seems to be okay with javascript enabled but content (i.e.=
,
> > > Flash) disabled while using the Opera browser. Without javascript it =
was
> > > just a blank page.
> >
> > ><clickety click>
> >
> > > Oh fargle bargle. I tried to navigate to a datasheet and got the "Thi=
s
> > > application requires Adobe Flash Player 9 or greater.Get Flash." warn=
ing
> > > but no datasheet. Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oo=
oo,
> > > sparkles!" Feh.
> >
> > > Try the various 'net datasheet archives?
> >
> > Thanks for checking.
> >
> > Unfortunately it's not just the datasheet I am interested in, but the w=
hole
> > ecosystem of application and technical notes as well which, until today=
, were
> > nicely organised into collections of related documents on static HTML p=
ages.
> >
> > I've worked with ARM boards in recent years, but it's been on the large=
r
> > processors such as Intel's IXP425. This is the first time I've tried us=
ing
> > a ARM processor as small as a ARM7TDMI MCU and I don't know what ARM7TD=
MI
> > specific issues (if any) I am going to encounter.
> >
> > Although I had a strong preference for Atmel (their software support ki=
ts
> > are very GNU friendly), the ST MCUs have more UART ports which was a ad=
vantage
> > for this project. However, I have now gone for a board using Atmel's SA=
M7
> > and will implement the project slightly differently.
> >
> > Congratulations ST marketing, you just lost a sale (even if it was just=
 a
> > single board. :-))
> >
> > Personally, I think requiring Flash for basic website access is unaccep=
table
> > for a technical website. (I regard Flash as a major security weak point=
 along
> > with causing usability issues and manage just fine without it elsewhere=
.)
> >
> > Simon.
>=20
> I agree wholeheartedly!  I just don't like Flash on general
> principals.  If I have to have some third party application beyond a
> browser just to view a web site, then it is a web site I don't need!
> I don't have Flash installed on Firefox and don't plan to install it
> anytime soon.  Mostly it is just the extra bandwidth used by flash
> sites, but also the fact that I am coerced into using software I don't
> want is a major strike against.  The funny part is that ST will never
> figure this out either as even the contacts page requires Flash!!!
>=20
> But if I remember correctly, the ST site was never a joy to navigate.
> I have always felt that TI has a grade A site almost the equal to
> Digikey.  Obviously someone has figured out that the Internet is a
> boon to sales...
>=20
> Long live TI and Digikey!
>=20
Seconded.   I use a lot of MSP430s from TI because they have done
a good job on documentation and keeping the chips available at
Digikey.  (Well, a nice architecture and inexpensive compiler and
debugger from Imagecraft help a lot.....Yes, that was a plug!)

Mark Borgerson

Rich Webb wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
>> it appears st.com is now a flash only website. :-(
> Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo, sparkles!" Feh.

Actually it's an f'n stoopid marketing idea as well, since Google doesn't
index Flash sites.

On Dec 11, 3:41=A0am, Clifford Heath <n...@spam.please.net> wrote:
> Rich Webb wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:54:30 +0000 (UTC), Simon Clubley
> >> it appears st.com is now a flash only website. :-(
> > Marketing gone wild, I guess. Farking marketing "Oooo, sparkles!" Feh.
>
> Actually it's an f'n stoopid marketing idea as well, since Google doesn't
> index Flash sites.

It was so bad, I sent them some scud feedback.

You have to wonder WHO they tested it on first ?
Perhaps we would run a sweepstake for how long it takes before the
deluded fools in ST marketing, realize they are NOT the bees knees ?

-jg

On 10/12/2010 04:02, rickman wrote:
> On Dec 9, 7:07 pm, Simon Clubley<clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-
> Earth.UFP>  wrote:
>> On 2010-12-09, Rich Webb<bbew...@mapson.nozirev.ten>  wrote:
<snip>
>> Congratulations ST marketing, you just lost a sale (even if it was just a
>> single board. :-))
>>
>> Personally, I think requiring Flash for basic website access is unacceptable
>> for a technical website. (I regard Flash as a major security weak point along
>> with causing usability issues and manage just fine without it elsewhere.)
>>
>> Simon.
>
> I agree wholeheartedly!  I just don't like Flash on general
> principals.  If I have to have some third party application beyond a
> browser just to view a web site, then it is a web site I don't need!
> I don't have Flash installed on Firefox and don't plan to install it
> anytime soon.  Mostly it is just the extra bandwidth used by flash
> sites, but also the fact that I am coerced into using software I don't
> want is a major strike against.  The funny part is that ST will never
> figure this out either as even the contacts page requires Flash!!!
>

I recommend installing flash in Firefox, and installing the "flashblock" 
plugin.  Then you can use flash if you need it, but avoid it most of the 
time.

I totally agree that flash is a terrible idea for a website (though it 
could be worse - they could have used a Java applet, or - shudder - 
Silverlight).  ST will lose sales from me too.

But there are occasions where flash is a reasonable choice (though 
sometimes javascript could be used instead).  Things like selection 
tools with lots of filters and selections can work well in flash.  But 
it should always be an alternative - not the only way to get the 
information you want.

The rule for good website design is that it should work with no flash 
and no javascript, and preferably even without images.  But it's okay to 
add javascript and flash to make it look nicer, navigate faster, or add 
extra functionality.


While we are ranting, I'd like to add in a couple of other complaints.

I /hate/ websites that force links to open in new windows, or open in 
the same window/tab.  All links should be simple, ordinary links - then 
it is /my/ choice if I want a new window (shift-click), a new tab 
(ctrl-click) or the same window (click).

I also dislike websites with meaningless addresses to pages.  If you are 
selling foobles, the product page for them should be something like 
http://www.foobleco.com/products/fooble.html - not some meaningless 
number, or a html get string based on "products.jsp".  The server 
backend might use a common jsp script - but it should appear as a 
straight html page.  Anything else is just incompetence at using the 
webserver's re-write rules.

And of course the datasheet for foobles should be called something like 
"fooble_datasheet_rev.1.2.pdf".



> But if I remember correctly, the ST site was never a joy to navigate.
> I have always felt that TI has a grade A site almost the equal to
> Digikey.  Obviously someone has figured out that the Internet is a
> boon to sales...
>
> Long live TI and Digikey!
>

TI requires flash to navigate to Stellaris pages, via a selector tool. 
The selector tool is quite good, and it's okay to have that in flash - 
but it should be an alternative to a simple list.

> Rick