Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In message <4d8e1de9.90993203@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel ><nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >> >>>In message <4d8d35dc.31587953@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >>><nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>>YMMV. For ARM you can use GCC + Eclipse which is completely free. >>> >>>No it isn't and never has been. IF may be free to download but that is >>>not the same thing. Ask you project manager. >> >>GCC + Eclipse are completely free. Nobody is charging you for using >>them. > >IF may be free to download but that is not the same thing. Ask you >project manager.There is no project manager so tell me where I should send the money if I use Eclipse. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
8051 on-chip debugging
Started by ●March 25, 2011
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT), Jim Granville <j.m.granville@gmail.com> wrote:>On Mar 27, 4:03�am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >> >> I just ran their search tool. �With async, I2C, and USB, the best they can do >> is 25 bits of I/O in a 32 pin package. �That might work, depending on what's >> left off, but I need to replace an existing (Atmel) part. > >?? >Their C8051F340, shows 2 Uarts, SMbus, USB, 64KF, in a QFP48 package ?No USB.>Perhaps their PDF selector guide is better than a search ?I used their parametric search, clicked UART, USB, and I2C. I only see 28 and 32 pin packages. "Dig I/O" bar only shows between 21 and 25 I/Os.
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
ChrisQ <meru@devnull.com> wrote:>Arlet Ottens wrote: > >> >> What's the problem with "overkill", if it doesn't come at any extra cost >> ? The small ARM controllers are very easy to use. >> >> ARM tool chain (free for small projects), trivial to set up: >> http://lpcxpresso.code-red-tech.com/LPCXpresso/ >> > >Don't argue with any of that, just that I don't have all the >infrastructure in place yet. That includes toolchain, function libraries >and all the other stuff that you gather over time as you work with an >architecture. Meanwhile, I need to earn a living, using the most >appropriate >and economic solutions, irrespective of current fashion status. > >For someone with little or no prior experience and for small projects, >it would be faster and more cost effective to buy the si labs kits. The >simpler architecture is easier to get to grips with and the $50 to $100 >kits get you up and running with working code within an hour.In that case I'd go for TI's MSP430. I've used those for a while for various projects. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
On Mar 27, 9:23=A0am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" <k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT), Jim Granville > > <j.m.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >On Mar 27, 4:03 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" > ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: > > >> I just ran their search tool. With async, I2C, and USB, the best they =can do> >> is 25 bits of I/O in a 32 pin package. That might work, depending on w=hat's> >> left off, but I need to replace an existing (Atmel) part. > > >?? > >Their C8051F340, shows 2 Uarts, SMbus, USB, 64KF, in a QFP48 package ? > > No USB.?? Pasted from their web site : http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/usb/Pages/default.aspx C8051F340-GQ : [" USB 2.0, 2xUART, I2C, SPI, Ext Mem I/F "] 48-pin, 9x9, TQFP> I used their parametric search, clicked UART, USB, and I2C. =A0I only see=28 and> 32 pin packages. "Dig I/O" bar only shows between 21 and 25 I/Os....Then don't use their 'parametric search' ;)\ { Tho USB & 40 io seems to findn the 340 just fine from here.... ?}
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
Op 26-Mar-11 22:17, Nico Coesel schreef:> Chris H<chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: > >> In message<4d8e1de9.90993203@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >> <nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>> Chris H<chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >>> >>>> In message<4d8d35dc.31587953@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >>>> <nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>>> YMMV. For ARM you can use GCC + Eclipse which is completely free. >>>> >>>> No it isn't and never has been. IF may be free to download but that is >>>> not the same thing. Ask you project manager. >>> >>> GCC + Eclipse are completely free. Nobody is charging you for using >>> them. >> >> IF may be free to download but that is not the same thing. Ask you >> project manager. > > There is no project manager so tell me where I should send the money > if I use Eclipse.Unless your time is worth nothing the purchase price of a tool is only a (small) part of its total cost.
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
Dombo <dombo@disposable.invalid> wrote:>Op 26-Mar-11 22:17, Nico Coesel schreef: >> Chris H<chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >> >>> In message<4d8e1de9.90993203@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >>> <nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>> Chris H<chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In message<4d8d35dc.31587953@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >>>>> <nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>>>> YMMV. For ARM you can use GCC + Eclipse which is completely free. >>>>> >>>>> No it isn't and never has been. IF may be free to download but that is >>>>> not the same thing. Ask you project manager. >>>> >>>> GCC + Eclipse are completely free. Nobody is charging you for using >>>> them. >>> >>> IF may be free to download but that is not the same thing. Ask you >>> project manager. >> >> There is no project manager so tell me where I should send the money >> if I use Eclipse. > >Unless your time is worth nothing the purchase price of a tool is only a >(small) part of its total cost.Then show me a tool which doesn't require time to learn how to use it. Eclipse being free doesn't mean it is bad. Eclipse is funded by huge companies like Nokia, IBM, SAP, Oracle, etc, etc. Its most certainly not a hobby project. Eclipse has been specifically designed to aid software engineers developing complex pieces of software. There are many different IDEs and the majority of them are not very productive to work with. For most compiler vendors the IDE is not part of their core business so they invest as little as possible in developing their IDE. Note that many have already moved to Eclipse or will do so in the near future. Semiconductor manufacturers like to show off with simple IDEs to win customers for their microcontrollers. Don't get fooled by shimmering beads and mirrors. At some point you will want to take software development to a next level and you'll find the simple IDE to be inadequate (=time wasted on learning how to use it). Or you'll move to a different platform (=time wasted on learning how to use the specific IDE). The whole point of Eclipse is to learn once and use it for all languages on all platforms. The same goes for GCC (and binutils). GCC works the same for all targets. If you know how to use GCC for an MSP430 you know for 99.9% how to compile for LPC2000. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●March 26, 20112011-03-26
On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:53:57 -0700 (PDT), Jim Granville <j.m.granville@gmail.com> wrote:>On Mar 27, 9:23�am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 13:45:55 -0700 (PDT), Jim Granville >> >> <j.m.granvi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >On Mar 27, 4:03 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" >> ><k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote: >> >> >> I just ran their search tool. With async, I2C, and USB, the best they can do >> >> is 25 bits of I/O in a 32 pin package. That might work, depending on what's >> >> left off, but I need to replace an existing (Atmel) part. >> >> >?? >> >Their C8051F340, shows 2 Uarts, SMbus, USB, 64KF, in a QFP48 package ? >> >> No USB. > >?? Pasted from their web site : >http://www.silabs.com/products/mcu/usb/Pages/default.aspx >C8051F340-GQ : [" USB 2.0, 2xUART, I2C, SPI, Ext Mem I/F "] 48-pin, >9x9, TQFP > > >> I used their parametric search, clicked UART, USB, and I2C. �I only see 28 and >> 32 pin packages. "Dig I/O" bar only shows between 21 and 25 I/Os. > >...Then don't use their 'parametric search' ;)\..but it's such a neat tool! ;-)> { Tho USB & 40 io seems to findn the 340 just fine from here.... ?}It finds it fine if you click on USB MCUs, too. Dumb site. I'll certainly look into it as a replacement for the Atmel part we're using. $99 for the Dev Kit is certainly reasonable, too. Thanks!
Reply by ●March 27, 20112011-03-27
In message <4d8e56ba.105537906@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel <nico@puntnl.niks> writes>Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: > >>In message <4d8e1de9.90993203@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >><nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >>> >>>>In message <4d8d35dc.31587953@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel >>>><nico@puntnl.niks> writes >>>>>YMMV. For ARM you can use GCC + Eclipse which is completely free. >>>> >>>>No it isn't and never has been. IF may be free to download but that is >>>>not the same thing. Ask you project manager. >>> >>>GCC + Eclipse are completely free. Nobody is charging you for using >>>them. >> >>IF may be free to download but that is not the same thing. Ask you >>project manager. > >There is no project manager so tell me where I should send the money >if I use Eclipse.Depends how you value your time. -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●March 27, 20112011-03-27
In message <4d8e81f1.116600859@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel <nico@puntnl.niks> writes> >For most compiler vendors the IDE is not part of their core business >so they invest as little as possible in developing their IDE.This is complete crap.> Note >that many have already moved to Eclipse or will do so in the near >future.Again crap and conjecture not based on reality.>Semiconductor manufacturers like to show off with simple IDEs to win >customers for their microcontrollers. Don't get fooled by shimmering >beads and mirrors.Iagree... This is why most silicon vendors do a GGC compiler so it is "free" to use their MCU's. They don't give a damn about GCC or Open source they just want the cheapest possible start up cost to get their silicon in use.>At some point you will want to take software >development to a next level and you'll find the simple IDE to be >inadequateIn what way?>The whole point of Eclipse is to learn once and use it for all >languages on all platforms. The same goes for GCC (and binutils). GCC >works the same for all targets. If you know how to use GCC for an >MSP430 you know for 99.9% how to compile for LPC2000.The answer to that is "badly" -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●March 27, 20112011-03-27
Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In message <4d8e81f1.116600859@news.kpnplanet.nl>, Nico Coesel ><nico@puntnl.niks> writes >> >>For most compiler vendors the IDE is not part of their core business >>so they invest as little as possible in developing their IDE. > >This is complete crap.Some customer complaints for example: http://www.keil.com/forum/14928/>> Note >>that many have already moved to Eclipse or will do so in the near >>future. > >Again crap and conjecture not based on reality.Well, check your reality: http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1166491&highlight= http://focus.ti.com/pr/docs/preldetail.tsp?sectionId=594&prelId=sc09100 http://am.renesas.com/products/tools/ide/ide_kpiteclipse/ide_kpiteclipse_tools_product_landing.jsp http://ics.nxp.com/lpcxpresso/ -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
