On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? > > After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex > decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very > similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in > the coming weeks. > > The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, > so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second > board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. > > Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development > community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. > > This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD > files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. > Same with the software. > > More Info: > http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the Pi is a waste of time.
OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor?
Started by ●March 7, 2012
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:>On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote: >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >> >> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >> the coming weeks. >> >> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >> >> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >> >> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >> Same with the software. >> >> More Info: >> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ > >I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like >Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the >Pi is a waste of time.Maybe. But knowing Olimex they probably come up with a product that actually appeals to people who like to build stuff. Less gadget, more real world applications. I don't think there is a manufacturer of embedded development boards with a wider variety. They must be doing something right. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:>On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote: >> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >> >> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >> the coming weeks. >> >> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >> >> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >> >> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >> Same with the software. >> >> More Info: >> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ >> >> Cheers Don... >> > > >It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. >These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have >ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi. Part ofThe (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website and offers several fora to users. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote:> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: > >> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote: >>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >>> >>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >>> the coming weeks. >>> >>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >>> >>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >>> >>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >>> Same with the software. >>> >>> More Info: >>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ >>> >>> Cheers Don... >>> >> >> >> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. >> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have >> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi. Part of > > The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the > software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website > and offers several fora to users. >Support from Freescale is something totally different from community support. It's a good start, but it is not the same. It just means that the basic BSP is in place for Android, Linux and Wince of some particular version. There is no guarantee that any of the changes, patches, drivers, etc., make their way back to the mainline. There is no guarantee that the anything will be supported in future versions. There is no guarantee that source will be available for third-party work commissioned by Freescale, or that the source that is provided is suitable for future use, or that there will be support in the future. I have seen these sorts of problems before from Freescale, where we had an iMX evaluation card. It came with a Linux build and BSP. But the chip had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale). So we had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics. Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers - they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead. I don't know if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face when support is by manufacturer only. The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major software packages like xmbc.
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
On 8/03/2012 9:28 PM, Nico Coesel wrote:> keithr<keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote: > >> On 8/03/2012 9:00 AM, Don McKenzie wrote: >>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >>> >>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >>> the coming weeks. >>> >>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >>> >>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >>> >>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >>> Same with the software. >>> >>> More Info: >>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ >> >> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like >> Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the >> Pi is a waste of time. > > Maybe. But knowing Olimex they probably come up with a product that > actually appeals to people who like to build stuff. Less gadget, more > real world applications. I don't think there is a manufacturer of > embedded development boards with a wider variety. They must be doing > something right. >I think that people are missing the point with the Pi, it isn't intended as an embedded development board, it is a small cheap and fairly capable Linux system. From the specs so far, it looks the more capable of the two, but I'll leave judgement until I've seen both. Hopefully both will find their audience, but I'll try the Pi first.
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote:>On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote: >> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: >> >>> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote: >>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >>>> >>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >>>> the coming weeks. >>>> >>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >>>> >>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >>>> >>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >>>> Same with the software. >>>> >>>> More Info: >>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ >>>> >>>> Cheers Don... >>>> >>> >>> >>> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. >>> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have >>> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi. Part of >> >> The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the >> software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website >> and offers several fora to users. >> > >Support from Freescale is something totally different from community >support. It's a good start, but it is not the same. It just means that >iMX evaluation card. It came with a Linux build and BSP. But the chip >had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed >source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale). So we >had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with >the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics.What is the problem with an 'out of date' kernel? If it works, it works. Bug fixes can often be backported without much problems.> Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers >- they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead. I don't know >if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face >when support is by manufacturer only.The same goes for any PC videocard.>The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen >well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major >software packages like xmbc.I see the same problem with the RP if Broadcom doesn't provide a new graphics driver. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
In comp.arch.embedded keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:> I suppose that it is the most sincere form of flattery. Looks like > Olimex disagrees with all those on the other thread that reckon that the > Pi is a waste of time.If you read the other thread completely, that includes Olimex. But knowing they have a competing product on the way helps explain some of their negative comments about the Pi. -a
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
On Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:40:38 +0100, David Brown wrote:> The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen > well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major > software packages like xmbc.Still some parts of the PI are closed tight, NDA's and that stuff, which is what turned me completely off after the initial enthusiasm. So any competition in that field is welcome, especially if it brings more openness.
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
On 08/03/2012 13:21, Nico Coesel wrote:> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: > >> On 08/03/2012 11:46, Nico Coesel wrote: >>> David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 07/03/2012 23:00, Don McKenzie wrote: >>>>> OLinuXino, a serious Rasberry Pi competitor? >>>>> >>>>> After talks at the recent Embedded conference in Germany (2012), Olimex >>>>> decided to go ahead with the production of two new boards that were very >>>>> similar to the Rasberry Pi. The first one they should have prototypes in >>>>> the coming weeks. >>>>> >>>>> The second will be 3 to 6 months before production boards will be seen, >>>>> so I won't cover it in this report, however the CPU specs on this second >>>>> board, are almost identical to the RPi microcontroller chip, and board. >>>>> >>>>> Olimex describes this board as a bridge to the linux development >>>>> community and the Duinomite/Arduino/Maple/Pinguino world of developers. >>>>> >>>>> This will be completely Open Hardware / Open Source Project, all CAD >>>>> files will be available so everyone can download modify, and use them. >>>>> Same with the software. >>>>> >>>>> More Info: >>>>> http://www.duinomite.com/olinuxino-a-serious-rasberry-pi-competitor/ >>>>> >>>>> Cheers Don... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It's a nice idea and initiative, but I don't see it going anywhere. >>>> These boards need community support - there are lots of groups who have >>>> ported different Linux distributions and software for the Pi. Part of >>> >>> The (community) support is already there. Freescale has all the >>> software (Linux and Win CE BSPs) and documentation on their website >>> and offers several fora to users. >>> >> >> Support from Freescale is something totally different from community >> support. It's a good start, but it is not the same. It just means that >> iMX evaluation card. It came with a Linux build and BSP. But the chip >> had a graphics accelerator, and the driver for that was partially closed >> source, and developed by a third-party (paid for by Freescale). So we >> had to choose between keeping the out-of-date Linux kernel provided with >> the BSP, or compiling a new kernel but losing the accelerated graphics. > > What is the problem with an 'out of date' kernel? If it works, it > works. Bug fixes can often be backported without much problems. >And when it doesn't support newer hardware, it doesn't support newer hardware. Bug fixes, and in particular newer features and drivers, can /not/ be backported without a lot of effort. In our particular case, we wanted support for a particular wireless interface. I wasn't directly involved, so I don't know the details, but we were faced with the choice of decent graphics or wireless connection, but not both without a great deal of time and effort.>> Freescale would not pay the third-party to update the graphics drivers >> - they were already promoting the next iMX chip instead. I don't know >> if Freescale has done it better this time, but that's a danger you face >> when support is by manufacturer only. > > The same goes for any PC videocard.No, the same does not apply to PC video cards for two reasons. One is that the third-party work commissioned by Freescale was badly done, and very tightly tied to the kernel version (so much so that it raises immediate suspicions of gpl violations). Secondly, Freescale dropped all efforts to support and update these drivers as soon as they had started promoting the next version of the iMX device. In the world of PC video cards, there is a better (though far from perfect) separation between the closed-source drivers and the kernel, the manufacturers make drivers to support a range of video cards and usually keep support for older cards in their newer drivers, and they try to keep reasonably up-to-date with kernel changes.> >> The Pi has /real/ community support - there are already half a dozen >> well-known Linux distributions that support it, as well as major >> software packages like xmbc. > > I see the same problem with the RP if Broadcom doesn't provide a new > graphics driver. >Yes indeed, this could well occur, and it is a risk with the way Broadcom is doing the drivers for the graphics unit (rather than providing documentation for an open-source effort). We can only hope that the Pi will help put pressure onto Broadcom to release its drivers as open source, or to provide the required documentation to let others write drivers. It has happened with some of Broadcom's WiFi drivers, and may happen here too.
Reply by ●March 8, 20122012-03-08
keithr <keith@nowhere.com.au> wrote:>On 8/03/2012 12:10 PM, Don McKenzie wrote: >> On 08-Mar-12 11:51 AM, Nico Coesel wrote: >>> Don McKenzie<5V@2.5A> wrote: >>> >>>> On 08-Mar-12 10:23 AM, Paul wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hopefully also unlike rPI have mounting holes and a decent power >>>>> connector. >>>> >>>> http://www.olimex.com/about.html >>>> >>>> The company has over 20 years� experience in designing, prototyping and >>>> manufacturing printed circuit boards, sub-assemblies, and complete >>>> electronic products. >>>> >>>> I doubt very much if you will see any of these problems Paul. :-) >>> >>> You never know. I've worked with designers with 20+ years of >>> experience who totally forget about mounting holes, forget about >>> clearance around screw heads or move holes on the next batch while >>> there are 100's of cases in stock with holes that match the 'old' >>> version. Did I already mention small 2mm / 78mil mounting holes? If it >>> where one project you might call it a mistake. On almost every project >>> its a real nuisance. >> >> I just had a look at the RPi videos, and they seem to have mounting >> holes and a DC power input plug. >> >> So I wonder what Paul was referring to. >> >> Cheers Don... > >I don't think that it has mounting holes, DC power is via a micro USB >connector.I see no mounting holes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Raspberry_Pi_Beta_Board.jpg It would be very nice if the Olimex board becomes something like this board: http://www.conitec.net/english/linuxboard.php The board by Conitec is just too expensive. I did look at it to build products around but the price was a showstopper. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
