89lpc9xx development using other devices

My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through hole
DIP 20 8K parts. Yearly volume 5K. Lots of years worth of 51 assembler
code. I use the basics, no analog, internal reset so the pin is usable,
internal osc so the pins are usable etc. I did use the keyboard interrupt
on one project.

So I thought I might be able to buy a SL or atmel development system and
create a 20 pin socket with the proper ports. I do use the onboard
oscillator and baud rate generator for the UART. I looked at SL and see
that the SFR's are different from NXP for their internal clock. Atmel has a
dev board but does not sell the board itself

I've spent the day looking at Zilog, Atmel, SST etc for 51core DIP parts
(SL has no dip). but no clear option. I looked at ARM assembly but that
would be a big leap. 

I'm leaning toward trying the Atmel 40 pin stuff to save my investment in
code.
Will I need heavy duty IDE (Keil etc. or will the low cost stuff replace
the PDS900). Recommendations?

What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?

Thoughts and comments are welcome. 


	   
					
---------------------------------------		
Posted through http://www.EmbeddedRelated.com

In comp.arch.embedded,
john111w <greenwick@n_o_s_p_a_m.nni.com> wrote:
> My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through hole
> DIP 20 8K parts. Yearly volume 5K. Lots of years worth of 51 assembler
> code. I use the basics, no analog, internal reset so the pin is usable,
> internal osc so the pins are usable etc. I did use the keyboard interrupt
> on one project.
>
> So I thought I might be able to buy a SL or atmel development system and
> create a 20 pin socket with the proper ports. I do use the onboard
> oscillator and baud rate generator for the UART. I looked at SL and see
> that the SFR's are different from NXP for their internal clock. Atmel has a
> dev board but does not sell the board itself
>
> I've spent the day looking at Zilog, Atmel, SST etc for 51core DIP parts
> (SL has no dip). but no clear option. I looked at ARM assembly but that
> would be a big leap. 
>
> I'm leaning toward trying the Atmel 40 pin stuff to save my investment in
> code.
> Will I need heavy duty IDE (Keil etc. or will the low cost stuff replace
> the PDS900). Recommendations?
>
> What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?
>
> Thoughts and comments are welcome. 

Did you try to find an alternative emulator? Hitex has support for a lot
of '51 derivatives (http://www.hitex.us/pdf/adapter51/index.html). It
seems the LPC900 is not on the list however, but you can ask.

How fast is this '51 you want to replace? If it is a fairly slow one, I can
imagine you can emulate it on a fast enough Cortex-M0 or other small ARM
controller. Don't know if anybody already has tried this, writing the
emulator from scratch would be a serious project.


-- 
Stef    (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)

Bershere's Formula for Failure:
	There are only two kinds of people who fail: those who
	listen to nobody... and those who listen to everybody.

On 4/16/2012 11:14 PM, john111w wrote:

>
> What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?
>

There are lots of vendors with Cortex M3 designs available.

The M0 part seems to be the 8-bit killer as far as cost is concerned.

Welcome to the 21 century ;-)

One problem is most if not all M0 and M3 processors are 3 Volt.

I have yet to find a part with less then 64 pins that is 5-volt.

If you have 15 active designs, why are you still needing an emulator ?

Isn't the code done ?

Good Luck

hamilton

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 09:36:08 +0200, Stef wrote:

> In comp.arch.embedded,
> john111w <greenwick@n_o_s_p_a_m.nni.com> wrote:
>> My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through
>> hole DIP 20 8K parts. Yearly volume 5K. Lots of years worth of 51
>> assembler code. I use the basics, no analog, internal reset so the pin
>> is usable, internal osc so the pins are usable etc. I did use the
>> keyboard interrupt on one project.
>>
>> So I thought I might be able to buy a SL or atmel development system
>> and create a 20 pin socket with the proper ports. I do use the onboard
>> oscillator and baud rate generator for the UART. I looked at SL and see
>> that the SFR's are different from NXP for their internal clock. Atmel
>> has a dev board but does not sell the board itself
>>
>> I've spent the day looking at Zilog, Atmel, SST etc for 51core DIP
>> parts (SL has no dip). but no clear option. I looked at ARM assembly
>> but that would be a big leap.
>>
>> I'm leaning toward trying the Atmel 40 pin stuff to save my investment
>> in code.
>> Will I need heavy duty IDE (Keil etc. or will the low cost stuff
>> replace the PDS900). Recommendations?
>>
>> What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?
>>
>> Thoughts and comments are welcome.
> 
> Did you try to find an alternative emulator? Hitex has support for a lot
> of '51 derivatives (http://www.hitex.us/pdf/adapter51/index.html). It
> seems the LPC900 is not on the list however, but you can ask.
> 
> How fast is this '51 you want to replace? If it is a fairly slow one, I
> can imagine you can emulate it on a fast enough Cortex-M0 or other small
> ARM controller. Don't know if anybody already has tried this, writing
> the emulator from scratch would be a serious project.

I thought of that.  It's been a long time since I've looked at the 8051 
instruction set, but in theory you could emulate it in an ARM.

Assuming that something can be adapted, it's probably better to make a 
little board with 20 pins on the bottom and a surface-mount 8051 
"something" on top.  None of the code will be 100% compatible, though.

It might be time to just bite the bullet and start using Cortex M0 parts.

-- 
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 00:14:50 -0500, john111w wrote:

> My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through
> hole DIP 20 8K parts. Yearly volume 5K. Lots of years worth of 51
> assembler code. I use the basics, no analog, internal reset so the pin
> is usable, internal osc so the pins are usable etc. I did use the
> keyboard interrupt on one project.
> 
> So I thought I might be able to buy a SL or atmel development system and
> create a 20 pin socket with the proper ports. I do use the onboard
> oscillator and baud rate generator for the UART. I looked at SL and see
> that the SFR's are different from NXP for their internal clock. Atmel
> has a dev board but does not sell the board itself
> 
> I've spent the day looking at Zilog, Atmel, SST etc for 51core DIP parts
> (SL has no dip). but no clear option. I looked at ARM assembly but that
> would be a big leap.
> 
> I'm leaning toward trying the Atmel 40 pin stuff to save my investment
> in code.
> Will I need heavy duty IDE (Keil etc. or will the low cost stuff replace
> the PDS900). Recommendations?
> 
> What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?
> 
> Thoughts and comments are welcome.

If you're coding exclusively in assembly (which is the way to go with the 
8051, as far as I'm concerned) then you should be able to use the "cheap 
stuff" for debugging.

ARM Cortex M0 parts are getting awfully cheap these days.  Assembly 
language programming is considerably different from the 8051, though.  
Not very many folks program those in assembly -- just bits and bobs to 
give the C code a place to work, and then it's off to the races in C.

-- 
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?

Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On 04/17/2012 06:45 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:

> ARM Cortex M0 parts are getting awfully cheap these days.  Assembly
> language programming is considerably different from the 8051, though.
> Not very many folks program those in assembly -- just bits and bobs to
> give the C code a place to work, and then it's off to the races in C.

For most projects on ARM Cortex you don't even need assembly code. Even 
startup/initialization and interrupt handling can be done perfectly fine 
in standard C. You don't even need to worry about using special 
'interrupt' keywords when defining an interrupt handler in C.

On 17.04.2012 07:14, john111w wrote:

> What did the industry move to after the 51, ARM?

Slightly the wrong question, I think.  The industry hasn't moved away 
from the '51 --- well, not quite yet.  ARM's Cortex-M0 might turn out to 
be the straw that eventually breaks this camel's back, but so far, it's 
still walking.

What the industry (and a large part of the hobbyist market) has moved 
away from quite summarily, though, are through-hole parts in general, 
and DIP in particular.  I think you'll eventually have to climb out of 
that hole you've designed yourself into.  Might as well do it now. 
Someone else already suggested an adapter board from TQFP or something 
to DIP as a quick stop-gap solution, IIRC --- let me second that suggestion.

Another thing the industry has essentially stopped using are classic 
style emulators with bond-out chips.  That's another idea you'll have to 
get used to.

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:14:50 PM UTC+12, john111w wrote:
> My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through hole
> DIP 20 8K parts. Yearly volume 5K. Lots of years worth of 51 assembler
> code. I use the basics, no analog, internal reset so the pin is usable,
> internal osc so the pins are usable etc. I did use the keyboard interrupt
> on one project.

If you are on ~20Pin/8K, then look at the Nuvoton N79E8xx LPC series

http://www.nuvoton.com/NuvotonMOSS/Community/ProductInfo.aspx?tp_GUID=82809976-506d-4249-a533-d73367d9c07e

These do have a Emulation Board, a clone of their M0 ones, called
NuTiny-N79E85J so should be a similar ~$20 price.
- actually finding one is a challenge tho.

If you ship DIP20, then the Newest N79E84x is not showing in DIP, but the slightly older sibling N79E825/4 shows as being also in DIP.
(emulate using the NuTiny-N79E85J, and ship the N79E825)
 
Or the STC12C56xx series shows up to 30KF in DIP20, with a faster core than Nuvoton. Not sure of the pinout and emulation details.

http://www.stc-51.com/

The Z51F will be closest to the NXP LPC in timing, as it uses a similar 2 Cycle core. Their peripherals are rather different tho, and Zilog are not offering the DIP20.

NXP do mention "Emulation support" for their Wide Vcc LPC985 family, but provided scant details. That would be the closest to what you use now.



-jg

On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 5:14:50 PM UTC+12, john111w wrote:
> My spare PDS900 died. I have about 15 active designs all using through hole
> DIP 20 8K parts. 

I'll add that the Holtek roadmap includes DIP20 to 16K.

http://www.holtek.com.tw/english/products/mcu_89.htm