On 8/23/2020 3:35, Rick C wrote:> On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 1:42:03 PM UTC-4, Dimiter wrote: >> On 8/22/2020 4:29, Rick C wrote: >>> On Friday, August 7, 2020 at 5:35:32 PM UTC-4, Dimiter wrote: >>>> It will be the first FPGA for me. What I want to do is not complex, >>>> I have done similar controllers (more complex really)numerous times >>>> using logic parts, PLD, CPLD-s etc. >>>> I need to put together a display controller, to just do framebuffer >>>> memory -> display interface. Framebuffer memory will be some sort of >>>> DDRAM (DDR-which depending on the FPGA type), I'll be happy with >>>> a 1920x1080 framebuffer, 32 bits per pixel (likely just 24 will >>>> be used initially). The framebuffer will be updated via PCIe by the >>>> processor so the FPGA has to be large enough to allow me to do >>>> say 2k words fifos for access (2 of them). >>>> How the output will go is unclear yet; probably HDMI (which adds >>>> some complexity of course but looks doable). >>>> The LVDS cable drivers are another unknown - is it a good idea >>>> (if possible at all) to have them on-chip (chip being the fpga)? >>>> Sounds a bit risky but this will not be a consumer product, not >>>> initially at least, so it does not have to be the most abuse >>>> proof unit in the galaxy (but I don't want it to be too easy to >>>> be killed either... I am just looking for people's experience >>>> in the area). >>>> Which way should I go? The tools must be free, I guess this >>>> narrows the choice, we are not a large company. >>>> I will have to do plenty of iterations until I have the thing >>>> work obviously so I want the processor to be able to initialize >>>> the FPGA logic from a file (it has a disk, ethernet, tcp/ip etc.). >>>> >>>> I guess I would prefer lower power, too - if I have multiple >>>> choices of similar devices. >>>> From what I saw there are FPGA-s which come with some hardwired >>>> DDRAM interface and PCIe, I'd go for one of these (doing DDRAM >>>> myself sounds like a waste of effort unless it proves necessary, >>>> having to do PCIe myself would probably make me look at other >>>> options). >>> >>> I remembered the part from Lattice that had the fancy-dancy interfaces, LFD2NX-40. They call it Certus-NX. There are only two sizes and the larger of the two at 39 kLUTs has the hard IP PCIe interface. It's only 1 lane and one controller. It also has SGMII (not familiar with that) with 2x2 lanes maybe. DDR Memory is supported, LPDDR2, DDR3/3L. >>> >> >> >> Thanks Rick, >> they do look interesting indeed but I saw no mention of a "free >> toolchain" so there probably is none (I did not dig though). >> I have made up my mind on the Artix device, the webpack tool >> says it will do all I need for free (the only downside being >> my code will be defacto public but I don't mind that for this >> project). So it will be this, I just need a few more weeks to >> clear up stuff and dig into that VivaLdo (with or without >> the four seasons... :) and do it. > > They are often happy to give out tools. It is possible you might need to talk to a salesperson about the tools for this device. Don't know, I've never bothered with any of the fancy parts. > > I'm not clear on the "public" thing. Are you saying Xilinx insists your code be "public"??? Or is this the thing where they want to have access to your code so they can analyze the quality of the tools? > > I guess if the "public" thing is a problem the tool can be used when off line and the files can be sequestered on a removable drive when you want to connect to the Internet. >I refer to their access to the code of course, hence the quotation makrs. And it does not bother me at all for this project. I am not sure many toolchains will be happy to work without internet access nowadays anyway (just my guess). Dimiter
Some preliminary help for an FPGA selection
Started by ●August 7, 2020
Reply by ●August 23, 20202020-08-23
Reply by ●August 23, 20202020-08-23
On Sunday, August 23, 2020 at 6:24:58 AM UTC-4, Dimiter wrote:> On 8/23/2020 3:35, Rick C wrote: > > On Saturday, August 22, 2020 at 1:42:03 PM UTC-4, Dimiter wrote: > >> On 8/22/2020 4:29, Rick C wrote: > >>> On Friday, August 7, 2020 at 5:35:32 PM UTC-4, Dimiter wrote: > >>>> It will be the first FPGA for me. What I want to do is not complex, > >>>> I have done similar controllers (more complex really)numerous times > >>>> using logic parts, PLD, CPLD-s etc. > >>>> I need to put together a display controller, to just do framebuffer > >>>> memory -> display interface. Framebuffer memory will be some sort of > >>>> DDRAM (DDR-which depending on the FPGA type), I'll be happy with > >>>> a 1920x1080 framebuffer, 32 bits per pixel (likely just 24 will > >>>> be used initially). The framebuffer will be updated via PCIe by the > >>>> processor so the FPGA has to be large enough to allow me to do > >>>> say 2k words fifos for access (2 of them). > >>>> How the output will go is unclear yet; probably HDMI (which adds > >>>> some complexity of course but looks doable). > >>>> The LVDS cable drivers are another unknown - is it a good idea > >>>> (if possible at all) to have them on-chip (chip being the fpga)? > >>>> Sounds a bit risky but this will not be a consumer product, not > >>>> initially at least, so it does not have to be the most abuse > >>>> proof unit in the galaxy (but I don't want it to be too easy to > >>>> be killed either... I am just looking for people's experience > >>>> in the area). > >>>> Which way should I go? The tools must be free, I guess this > >>>> narrows the choice, we are not a large company. > >>>> I will have to do plenty of iterations until I have the thing > >>>> work obviously so I want the processor to be able to initialize > >>>> the FPGA logic from a file (it has a disk, ethernet, tcp/ip etc.). > >>>> > >>>> I guess I would prefer lower power, too - if I have multiple > >>>> choices of similar devices. > >>>> From what I saw there are FPGA-s which come with some hardwired > >>>> DDRAM interface and PCIe, I'd go for one of these (doing DDRAM > >>>> myself sounds like a waste of effort unless it proves necessary, > >>>> having to do PCIe myself would probably make me look at other > >>>> options). > >>> > >>> I remembered the part from Lattice that had the fancy-dancy interfaces, LFD2NX-40. They call it Certus-NX. There are only two sizes and the larger of the two at 39 kLUTs has the hard IP PCIe interface. It's only 1 lane and one controller. It also has SGMII (not familiar with that) with 2x2 lanes maybe. DDR Memory is supported, LPDDR2, DDR3/3L. > >>> > >> > >> > >> Thanks Rick, > >> they do look interesting indeed but I saw no mention of a "free > >> toolchain" so there probably is none (I did not dig though). > >> I have made up my mind on the Artix device, the webpack tool > >> says it will do all I need for free (the only downside being > >> my code will be defacto public but I don't mind that for this > >> project). So it will be this, I just need a few more weeks to > >> clear up stuff and dig into that VivaLdo (with or without > >> the four seasons... :) and do it. > > > > They are often happy to give out tools. It is possible you might need to talk to a salesperson about the tools for this device. Don't know, I've never bothered with any of the fancy parts. > > > > I'm not clear on the "public" thing. Are you saying Xilinx insists your code be "public"??? Or is this the thing where they want to have access to your code so they can analyze the quality of the tools? > > > > I guess if the "public" thing is a problem the tool can be used when off line and the files can be sequestered on a removable drive when you want to connect to the Internet. > > > > I refer to their access to the code of course, hence the quotation > makrs. And it does not bother me at all for this project. > > I am not sure many toolchains will be happy to work without > internet access nowadays anyway (just my guess). > > DimiterYeah, I expect it was their access you were talking about, but... You never know. The only Internet access needed for Lattice tools to work is once a year to get the new license file and that can be done by sneaker net if you want. I've had to work that way before (projects I can't talk about without having to kill you and I don't do wet ware). Then there is the Internet connection I have now going down rather often. We are supposed to soon be getting a new fiber link to the local tower that will solve a lot of our problems. Yea! -- Rick C. ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
