On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote:> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown > wrote: >> On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C >>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C >>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL >>>>>> for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol >>>>> We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them ! >>>>> >>>>> First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications >>>>> guys. >>>>> >>>>> I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at >>>>> Dialog before Resesas took over. >>>> >>>> Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or >>>> multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed? >>> >>> You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them >>> ourselves. >>> >>> We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using >>> the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is >>> that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM >>> LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that >>> working yet. >>> >>> I really like these parts ! >>> >> I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We >> had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about >> them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get >> round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the >> benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier. >> >> If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use >> the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for >> small quantities or development, but not great for production. It >> must also be an issue when you need to change the program during >> development. >> >> Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many >> cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or >> non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a >> microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the >> GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the >> device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could >> work as part of a board's test and programming procedure. > > GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is > loaded into RAM at power on.Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days? (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.)> The Greenpak devices have two types, > OTP and multiple time programmable.Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume for the OTP versions, and of course there is the strong tradition of changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little more efficient.> > I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more > specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one > part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several > LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are > limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk > about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean > comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a > couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall). > > Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The > selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need > to know the products before you can use the selection guides. >Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)
Renesas GreenPAK Sales/FAE Support
Started by ●October 9, 2022
Reply by ●November 10, 20222022-11-10
Reply by ●November 10, 20222022-11-10
On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:> On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote: > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown > > wrote: > >> On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote: > >>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C > >>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote: > >>>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C > >>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL > >>>>>> for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol > >>>>> We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them ! > >>>>> > >>>>> First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications > >>>>> guys. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at > >>>>> Dialog before Resesas took over. > >>>> > >>>> Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or > >>>> multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed? > >>> > >>> You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them > >>> ourselves. > >>> > >>> We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using > >>> the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is > >>> that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM > >>> LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that > >>> working yet. > >>> > >>> I really like these parts ! > >>> > >> I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We > >> had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about > >> them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get > >> round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the > >> benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier. > >> > >> If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use > >> the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for > >> small quantities or development, but not great for production. It > >> must also be an issue when you need to change the program during > >> development. > >> > >> Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many > >> cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or > >> non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a > >> microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the > >> GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the > >> device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could > >> work as part of a board's test and programming procedure. > > > > GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is > > loaded into RAM at power on. > Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days? > (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.) > > The Greenpak devices have two types, > > OTP and multiple time programmable. > Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume > for the OTP versionsI don't think you understand. Some parts are OTP, others are multiple. You don't get a choice.> and of course there is the strong tradition of > changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the > last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough > minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable > for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little > more efficient.They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals.> > I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more > > specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one > > part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several > > LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are > > limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk > > about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean > > comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a > > couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall). > > > > Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The > > selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need > > to know the products before you can use the selection guides. > > > Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline > for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep > different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-)-- Rick C. --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
Reply by ●November 11, 20222022-11-11
On 11/11/2022 02:04, Rick C wrote:> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 2:18:13 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote: >> On 10/11/2022 17:34, Rick C wrote: >>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 4:14:35 AM UTC-4, David Brown >>> wrote: >>>> On 09/11/2022 23:07, boB wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 24 Oct 2022 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT), Rick C >>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, October 23, 2022 at 4:34:21 PM UTC-4, boB wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2022 11:19:56 -0700 (PDT), Rick C >>>>>>> <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did hear back from Newark finally. They gave me the URL >>>>>>>> for the Renesas web page for the Greenpak products. lol >>>>>>> We use 2 GP6s per product for our new stuff. Love them ! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First heard about them from one of Avnet's applications >>>>>>> guys. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have also had talks with one of their applications guys at >>>>>>> Dialog before Resesas took over. >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you program them? Are they single time programmable or >>>>>> multiple? Do you buy them preprogrammed? >>>>> >>>>> You can get them pre-programmed but so far, we program them >>>>> ourselves. >>>>> >>>>> We are expecting to be able to re-program them in circuit using >>>>> the I2C bus from the processor. Actually, what happens there is >>>>> that the original programming stays and you overwrite the RAM >>>>> LTUs is how I think it works. I have not had a chance to get that >>>>> working yet. >>>>> >>>>> I really like these parts ! >>>>> >>>> I haven't used GreenPAK devices, but they do look interesting. We >>>> had a distributor FAE here recently who was planning to talk about >>>> them, but we used so much time on other topics that we didn't get >>>> round to it. And another distributor has been telling us about the >>>> benefits of Renesas microcontrollers and Renesas as a supplier. >>>> >>>> If you program the parts yourself, how do you do that? Do you use >>>> the GreenPAK boards for programming? That would seem fine for >>>> small quantities or development, but not great for production. It >>>> must also be an issue when you need to change the program during >>>> development. >>>> >>>> Programming in-circuit using I²C would be practical for us in many >>>> cases, but it makes a big difference if it is volatile or >>>> non-volatile. Volatile programming would need to be done from a >>>> microcontroller on power-on, and that obviously won't work if the >>>> GreenPAK is used to control board power. But programming the >>>> device's flash via a small connector and external I²C master could >>>> work as part of a board's test and programming procedure. >>> >>> GreenPak is like the Lattice FPGAs, non-volatile storage that is >>> loaded into RAM at power on. >> Isn't that the most common way to handle programmable logic these days? >> (Of course, not all devices have the non-volatile storage on-chip.) >>> The Greenpak devices have two types, >>> OTP and multiple time programmable. >> Yes, that's what I thought. I don't expect to be using enough volume >> for the OTP versions > > I don't think you understand. Some parts are OTP, others are multiple. You don't get a choice. >OK. I had assumed the same parts were available in both varieties. Or that within a family, the biggest (superset) part would have a flash variant while the other parts would be OTP only. This sort of arrangement is common for devices with OTP options.> >> and of course there is the strong tradition of >> changing software (meaning anything programmable) right up until the >> last moment. But maybe they have fast enough turnaround and low enough >> minimum order quantities for factory programmed versions to be suitable >> for some of our customers. Certainly it would make production a little >> more efficient. > > They have a process, and I've not heard any indication they are fast about it. I believe it takes weeks to turn around a new design and sign off on all the approvals. >"Weeks" sounds quite fast for such a process - and with component lead time as it is at the moment, that does not sound worse than many normal components. Of course, 52 weeks is still "weeks"...> >>> I could get some real use out of them, but the parts are a bit more >>> specialized than I'd like. I could use an op amp with filtering (one >>> part), 5V to 3V digital signal conversion (another part) and several >>> LDOs (yet another part). The digital input/output voltages are >>> limited to whatever is defined by the power supply. While they talk >>> about combing digital and analog, by "analog" they mostly mean >>> comparators. There's only one part with useful opamps (maybe a >>> couple of flavors of that part, I don't recall). >>> >>> Renesas has not done them any favors. Their web site is a PITA. The >>> selection guides are not easy to use. Like many companies, you need >>> to know the products before you can use the selection guides. >>> >> Thanks for the review. I don't currently have a design in the pipeline >> for which they would be a good solution, but it's always nice to keep >> different ideas in mind. And it's always fun to play with new toys :-) >
Reply by ●November 16, 20222022-11-16
On 10/9/2022 6:39 PM, Rick C wrote:> I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL > > I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing. > > Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering, marking, etc. > > I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before?Perhaps this Renesas marketing presentation is of interest: https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/electronica/electronica-video-interview-renesas-on-greenpak-programmable-mixed-signal-matrix-2022-11/
Reply by ●November 16, 20222022-11-16
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:51:03 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:> On 10/9/2022 6:39 PM, Rick C wrote: > > I've been considering a Greenpak device or two or even three, in a respin of a new design. I've identified three functions that the Greenpak devices could replace on my board, but not all in the same part! LOL > > > > I'd like to discuss this design with an FAE or salesperson, but I can't seem to get any replies. The Renesas website was clearly created by pointy haired bosses in legion with artistic web designers, with little regard to the process of sharing information. The contact page has controls for specifying your region of the world, but they seem to do nothing. > > > > Does anyone have a US contact for these parts? One of the things I want to learn about is what happens once you hand them a design file for a preprogrammed part. They basically say, you give them the design file, and a few months later you get a part. No mention of part numbering, marking, etc. > > > > I'd like this to become a private label part, with no Greenpak markings. Just a customer part number. Anyone done that before? > Perhaps this Renesas marketing presentation is of interest: > https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/electronica/electronica-video-interview-renesas-on-greenpak-programmable-mixed-signal-matrix-2022-11/Thanks, but I'm not in marketing. I'm an engineer, so an engineering presentation might be better. I did finally have a conversation with someone and they simply don't have very many parts that would be of use. The audio parts don't do anything useful for me, that my op amps don't already do. Their level shifting parts (dual power supply) don't do anything that other level shifter parts don't do. They have an LDO part that might be of use. It can also provide an inverter needed in the reset path. So there is some very minimal about of functional incorporation in this one part. It seems the product line is oriented around the programmable logic. If you can't make good use of that, the rest of the device is of much less utility... unless that combination just happens to fit what you need. -- Rick C. --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
