Hi Folks I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code (presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug into the device to reprogram via ISP. Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me to relevant links? Thanks Rgds Calvin Chan calvin_wp_chan@yahoo.co.uk
standalone programmer for PIC?
Started by ●December 15, 2004
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
PIC chips are relatively cheap, so why not program a bunch of chips at your shop and then the service rep would go and swap out the chip at he customers site. ZIF sockets would be a good idea. Then the rep returns the old chips back to the shop for another round of updating. Pretty straight forward. "Calvin Chan" <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote in message news:jcs1s052kikpahm8oo0tird5kqurhvklm9@4ax.com...> Hi Folks > > I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers > for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. > > The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code > (presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the > binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), > and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug > into the device to reprogram via ISP. > > Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me > to relevant links? Thanks > > Rgds > > Calvin Chan > calvin_wp_chan@yahoo.co.uk
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
Marlowe wrote:> > PIC chips are relatively cheap, so why not program a bunch of chips > at your shop and then the service rep would go and swap out the > chip at he customers site. ZIF sockets would be a good idea. Then > the rep returns the old chips back to the shop for another round of > updating. Pretty straight forward.Please don't toppost. ZIF sockets cost much more than PIC chips. -- Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
Our product is not to use dip package but soic and ssop package solder onboard, so the only possible easy way is the ISP method. Rgds Calvin On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:18:33 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:>Marlowe wrote: >> >> PIC chips are relatively cheap, so why not program a bunch of chips >> at your shop and then the service rep would go and swap out the >> chip at he customers site. ZIF sockets would be a good idea. Then >> the rep returns the old chips back to the shop for another round of >> updating. Pretty straight forward. > >Please don't toppost. ZIF sockets cost much more than PIC chips.
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
"Calvin Chan" <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote in message news:jcs1s052kikpahm8oo0tird5kqurhvklm9@4ax.com...> Hi Folks > > I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers > for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. > > The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code > (presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the > binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), > and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug > into the device to reprogram via ISP. > > Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me > to relevant links? ThanksI don't think that such a device is available but it wouldn't be difficult to design and make one. All it needs is a suitable MCU with an RS-232 port for downloading the code, an ISP programming interface, a pushbutton, a couple of LEDs and some software. Leon
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
Sure this is the way to do it, but of course if I can get one off shelf, that save our development time to study the ISP protocol etc. Failing that in getting one off shelf, then there comes the question of whether there is sample C code for the ISP implementation. Rgds Calvin On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:34:57 -0000, "Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote:>"Calvin Chan" <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote in message >news:jcs1s052kikpahm8oo0tird5kqurhvklm9@4ax.com... >> Hi Folks >> >> I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers >> for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. >> >> The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code >> (presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the >> binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), >> and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug >> into the device to reprogram via ISP. >> >> Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me >> to relevant links? Thanks > >I don't think that such a device is available but it wouldn't be difficult >to design and make one. All it needs is a suitable MCU with an RS-232 port >for downloading the code, an ISP programming interface, a pushbutton, a >couple of LEDs and some software. > >Leon >
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
"Calvin Chan" <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote in message news:fmn2s09aq261497thlr4pcd1022jhgsrqt@4ax.com...> Sure this is the way to do it, but of course if I can get one off > shelf, that save our development time to study the ISP protocol etc. > > Failing that in getting one off shelf, then there comes the question > of whether there is sample C code for the ISP implementation.The algorithms are available, implementing them in C or assembler would be quite easy. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller http://www.kasamba.com/viewExpert.asp?conMemID=105725&Catid=1111&banID=2100
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
Calvin Chan wrote:> Hi Folks > > I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers > for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. > > The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code > (presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the > binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), > and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug > into the device to reprogram via ISP. > > Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me > to relevant links? Thanks > > Rgds > > Calvin Chan > calvin_wp_chan@yahoo.co.ukThere should be application notes for this on the Microchip site. The things I'd worry about are: All the external stuff you have to have to support it...switches, connectors, input protection etc. You don't want to zap the circuit hooking up the programmer. In fact, you don't even want to open the enclosure to upgrade the firmware. You gotta have available pins or a way to use pins that are already wired to something else. What's the state of the processor during the programming? If conflicting outputs get turned on simultaneously, you can make smoke. For processors with a UART, I like the bootloader approach. You can put a couple of optoisolators in a box and hang it on the serial port of any laptop (that has a serial port). It's harder to kill an optoisolated port. I'd also worry about the security of your code. If it's really, really secret...AND...it has high value...it WILL be compromised... When you weigh the cost of a service call against the value of the code, you might find that secrecy is VERY expensive. As a test, give the processor external specs to a high-school computer club and see how long it takes them to generate code to duplicate the function. Secrecy might be moot. It's easy to underestimate the logistics of field programmability by an order of magnitude or two. At Tektronix, I spent a bundle of money implementing management mandated requirements that sounded good on paper, but sent life-cycle costs thru the roof. What do you have to do to support a critical update on 100 systems spread all over the world? 1000 systems? Unless you have Santa Claus on the payroll, it's a real problem with a manageable inventory of programmers and personnel. Field programmability really shines when the customer can do it all by hisbadself without opening the box. Take a lesson from computer motherboard, modem, ethernet, and most everything else, BIOS updates. mike -- Return address is VALID. Wanted, Slot 1 Motherboard 500MHz Tek DSOscilloscope TDS540 Make Offer http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/te.html Wanted, 12.1" LCD for Gateway Solo 5300. Samsung LT121SU-121 Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
In article <jcs1s052kikpahm8oo0tird5kqurhvklm9@4ax.com>, Calvin Chan <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote: -Hi Folks - -I have been looking into some sorts of portable standalone programmers -for PIC. The idea is for on site firmware update. - -The idea is to preload the programmer with the firmware hex code -(presumably the programmer is equipped with flash/eeprom to house the -binary code. For security reason, the hex code is not distributed), -and the service engineer will take the programmer to site, and plug -into the device to reprogram via ISP. - -Does anyone come across this type of device, or can anyone points me -to relevant links? Thanks If you have the right part, you can simply implement a bootloader with a secure protocol. It just requires a PIC that can program itself. These include the 16F88 in the 18 pin package, the 16F876A and 16F877A in the 28 and 40 pin package, or any of the 18F parts. Then you wouldn't need a standalone programmer at all. Just plug a serial port into the chip, and run the right piece of software, and you're done. BAJ
Reply by ●December 16, 20042004-12-16
Calvin Chan <calvin_chan@post1.com> wrote in news:mce2s09b67cb02uprvclu4r8mi36l9sokj@4ax.com:>>> PIC chips are relatively cheap, so why not program a bunch of chips >>> at your shop and then the service rep would go and swap out the >>> chip at he customers site. ZIF sockets would be a good idea. Then >>> the rep returns the old chips back to the shop for another round of >>> updating. Pretty straight forward. >> >>Please don't toppost. ZIF sockets cost much more than PIC chips.> Our product is not to use dip package but soic and ssop package solder > onboard, so the only possible easy way is the ISP method.Please, no top posting. Ensure your design conforms to the ICD-2 in-circuit programming requirements. The ICD-2 is made by Microchip. -- - Mark -> --
