Hello all,
I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to integrate
it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR.
I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is good
documentation and schematic examples available for it
(i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its an
old chip?
If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good
documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly
understand with ease.
I wish to gain the experience of making my own ethernet capable board,
writing my own tcp/ip stack so don't suggest any turnkey ("buy this board")
solutions.
Thank you very much to those who reply.
Ethernet chip - newbie need help with selection
Started by ●October 21, 2005
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
"zilinxchip" <zilinxchip@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:pan.2005.10.21.07.50.09.637066@fakeaddress.com...> Hello all, > I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to > integrate > it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR. > > I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is > good > documentation and schematic examples available for it > (i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its an > old chip?Although the Realtek 8019AS can be used, I consider it to be relatively crappy. It is doubtful that you will be able to get any useful information on the chip from Realtek, since it was originally designed for the ISA bus on standard PCs. However, because there aren't that many Ethernet controllers out there for embedded use, this non-PCI chip is relatively popular. The Microchip PICDEM.NET demo board's Users Guide has schematics showing it in use. Microchip App Note AN833 "The Microchip TCP/IP Stack" may be useful if you're wondering how to interface with the Realtek's ISA interface. I would provide links to the afformentioned documents, but unfortunately Microchip's website is down for maintenance right now. The cons of this chip are: 1. High pin count wastes board space and increases soldering work 2. ISA bus requires bit banging, diminishing performance 3. Chip is old and costs a lot 4. Data sheet is gobbledygook and incomplete (for the purposes of doing non-ISA-PC oriented designs) The pros of this chip: 1. It exists 2. It works at 5V> If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good > documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly > understand with ease.I'd recommend the Microchip ENC28J60 stand alone Ethernet controller with SPI. It's awesome compared to the 8019AS. The only significant problem is that the chip is new and Microchip's standard distributors don't appear to have any chips to sell you at this point. Unless you can wait, you may have to contact Microchip to obtain chips to play with. I've written a great deal of code for the ENC28J60 including my own TCP/IP stack. I like it.
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:50:09 -0600, zilinxchip <zilinxchip@fakeaddress.com> wrote:>Hello all, > I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to integrate >it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR. > >I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is good >documentation and schematic examples available for it >(i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its an >old chip? > >If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good >documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly >understand with ease. > >I wish to gain the experience of making my own ethernet capable board, >writing my own tcp/ip stack so don't suggest any turnkey ("buy this board") >solutions. > >Thank you very much to those who reply.Zilog eZ80F91. 50 MHz 8 bit MCU with on-chip 10/100 Ethernet controller. You just have to add the phy with magnetics etc. Mit freundlichen Gr��en Frank-Christian Kr�gel
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
"Howard Henry Schlunder" <howard_hs@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:43588d2f$1_4@newsfeed.slurp.net...> "zilinxchip" <zilinxchip@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message > news:pan.2005.10.21.07.50.09.637066@fakeaddress.com... >> Hello all, >> I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to >> integrate >> it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR. >> >> I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is >> good >> documentation and schematic examples available for it >> (i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its >> an >> old chip? > > Although the Realtek 8019AS can be used, I consider it to be relatively > crappy. It is doubtful that you will be able to get any useful > information on the chip from Realtek, since it was originally designed for > the ISA bus on standard PCs. However, because there aren't that many > Ethernet controllers out there for embedded use, this non-PCI chip is > relatively popular. The Microchip PICDEM.NET demo board's Users Guide has > schematics showing it in use. Microchip App Note AN833 "The Microchip > TCP/IP Stack" may be useful if you're wondering how to interface with the > Realtek's ISA interface. I would provide links to the afformentioned > documents, but unfortunately Microchip's website is down for maintenance > right now. > > The cons of this chip are: > 1. High pin count wastes board space and increases soldering work > 2. ISA bus requires bit banging, diminishing performance > 3. Chip is old and costs a lot > 4. Data sheet is gobbledygook and incomplete (for the purposes of doing > non-ISA-PC oriented designs) > > The pros of this chip: > 1. It exists > 2. It works at 5V >For micros with address and data bus there's nothing wrong with the deivce. If you're into bit banging then perhaps the PCI variety may be more appropriate. They're also cheaper. I'm talking of a couple of years ago but I found an Asix part which was a Realtek lookalike with the same registers etc. The datasheet give you a second stab at understanding how to drive the chip.>> If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has >> good >> documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly >> understand with ease. > > I'd recommend the Microchip ENC28J60 stand alone Ethernet controller with > SPI. It's awesome compared to the 8019AS. The only significant problem > is that the chip is new and Microchip's standard distributors don't appear > to have any chips to sell you at this point. Unless you can wait, you may > have to contact Microchip to obtain chips to play with. > > I've written a great deal of code for the ENC28J60 including my own TCP/IP > stack. I like it.Worrying - I hate things you can't get! It destroy any positive feature the device might have.
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
You might consider a Freescale hc9s12ne64 microcontroller with built in ethernet MAC & PHY. Basically all you have to add is a clock crystal, ethernet magnetics, a bias resistor and the usual decoupling caps. I know you wanted to write your own stack, but having opentcp readily available for this chip at no charge gives you an easy way to test that your board works. One not nice thing: in the lower pin count version, you have no complete 8 bit I/O ports! Not sure what they were thinking - who wants various fractions of multiple ports? Have to go to the larger pin count version to get some full width ports, or split byte-wide peripherals across ports.
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
>For micros with address and data bus there's nothing wrong with the deivce. >If you're into bit banging then perhaps the PCI variety may be more >appropriate.I may understand you wrong, but are you saying that bit-bangig an PCI bus kind of networkcontroller is easier to bit bang with a smal micro than an ISA bus one? Any reference/pointer of a project that does this? Markus
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
Markus Zingg wrote:> >For micros with address and data bus there's nothing wrong with the deivce. > >If you're into bit banging then perhaps the PCI variety may be more > >appropriate. > > I may understand you wrong, but are you saying that bit-bangig an PCI > bus kind of networkcontroller is easier to bit bang with a smal micro > than an ISA bus one?I sense a growing frustration with the misuse of the term "bit banging" leading to posts such as that quoted in the post above, which try to illustrate that if you want to make the problem artificially hard for yourself, you might as well enjoy it. Interfacing an ISA bus peripheral to a typical microcontroller does not require "bit banging"... at most it requires "strobe banging" if you cannot match the ISA timing to some external memory or addressable I/O mode of the device and have to use a general I/O pin to generate the necessary strobes. "Bit banging" implies you are using multiple I/O port accesses to send or receive data one bit at a time - software implementations of serial communications for example.
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
> If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good > documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly > understand with ease.Using either the Crystal CS8900A or the Realtec8019AS chips is a good choice for a few reasons. Goto www.edtp.com and you can grab hold of small boards with these chips already on and magnetics choosen. Of the two? My choice of use is Realtek. Its easier to write code for due to its better (in my opinion), buffer mechanism. You can also decide (or not), to buy Freds book (Networking & internetworking with Microcontrollers), he lays bare both ethernet chips with lots of descriptions of the inner workings and if you want to accept all he has to offer in the book, the source code as well. A great book for anyone 'starting' with any of these chips. Lots of software/examples already out there.> I wish to gain the experience of making my own ethernet capable board, > writing my own tcp/ip stack so don't suggest any turnkey ("buy this > board") > solutions.Ok. Don't buy the boards. But buy the book (I'm not a shareholder honest!). I bought it ages ago and it jump started my ethernet experience, although I had already used the CS8900A a few years back. As someone else has already mentioned. The Microchip ENC28J60 device is 'sort-of' available. Contact a Microchip rep and you may be able to get samples. I know that they are shipping parts but demand is high. This chip is v.small and very powerfull. Only uses SPI interface to your PIC. And if you get stuck on your TCPIP stack, there's code available to nudge you along. Good luck Jim www.picmodules.com
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
"zilinxchip" <zilinxchip@fakeaddress.com> skrev i meddelandet news:pan.2005.10.21.07.50.09.637066@fakeaddress.com...> Hello all, > I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to > integrate > it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR. > > I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is > good > documentation and schematic examples available for it > (i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its an > old chip? > > If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good > documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly > understand with ease. > > I wish to gain the experience of making my own ethernet capable board, > writing my own tcp/ip stack so don't suggest any turnkey ("buy this > board") > solutions. > > Thank you very much to those who reply. >AT91SAM7X128 or AT91SAM7X256 integrates * ARM7 * Ethernet MAC (with MII interface) * 128/256 kB Flash * 32/64 kB SRAM You goet a lot of other peripherals like U(S)ART, SPI, TWI, ADC, Timers etc. -- Best Regards, Ulf Samuelsson This is intended to be my personal opinion which may, or may bot be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB
Reply by ●October 21, 20052005-10-21
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:50:09 -0600, zilinxchip <zilinxchip@fakeaddress.com> wrote:>Hello all, > I need a recommendation for an Ethernet chip. I plan to integrate >it with an MCU (probably 8 bit). Either a PIC or an AVR. > >I've heard of the Realtek 8019AS. Is that a good chip to work with? Is good >documentation and schematic examples available for it >(i've heard otherwise). Is it considered a little dated given that its an >old chip? > >If so, what others can you suggest? I'd like to use a chip which has good >documentation/datasheets which I can refer to and more importantly >understand with ease. > >I wish to gain the experience of making my own ethernet capable board, >writing my own tcp/ip stack so don't suggest any turnkey ("buy this board") >solutions. > >Thank you very much to those who reply.The Wiznet W3100A is very easy to interface to an 8-bit MCU. Since the TCP/IP stack is run in hardware on the chip (4 simultaneous sockets), the amount of code needed is extremely small. The device only needs a phy plus magnetics. They even have a development board with an ATMEGA128 together with the W3100A. Regards Anton Erasmus
