Can someone advise where to turn to get a PCB prototype made including populating the ICs (2-3x BGA1xx packages) from both sides, for reasonable price (hobby project) ? I am thinking PCBexpress. They seem to offer prototyping via other local vendor. Anyone can advise to or not to use PCB123 software ? Is it possible to route signals through FPGA from any I/O to any I/O (i.e. like matrix switch) and how many cells would such functionality need for matrix of approx 30 x 60 ? Thanks Roman
where to make 4 layer PCBs and populate them ?
Started by ●November 6, 2005
Reply by ●November 7, 20052005-11-07
The main issue with PCB123 and other free layout tools is you are limited to only buy the boards from them. (Because their free programs won't output Gerber files) I would use Eagle Cad if your PCB is 3.5"x2.5" or smaller. The free version of Eagle Cad will allow you to output gerber files. Having Gerbers files opens up so many more cost effective options for small quantities of boards. Most board stuffing companies will due prototype (1-5) runs on boards, but you are looking at aleast a $200 setup fee and about $30-40 per BGA they place. If you have the option I would recommend staying away from BGA's. Hobby projects and BGA's don't go together, almost anyone can hand solder on QFN packages with a little practice and a lot of "no-clean flux". Eric
Reply by ●November 7, 20052005-11-07
Eric <ericjohnholland@hotmail.com> wrote:> The main issue with PCB123 and other free layout tools is you are > limited to only buy the boards from them. (Because their free programs > won't output Gerber files)> I would use Eagle Cad if your PCB is 3.5"x2.5" or smaller. The free > version of Eagle Cad will allow you to output gerber files. Having > Gerbers files opens up so many more cost effective options for small > quantities of boards.> Most board stuffing companies will due prototype (1-5) runs on boards, > but you are looking at aleast a $200 setup fee and about $30-40 per BGA > they place. If you have the option I would recommend staying away from > BGA's.There are prototype manufacturers like PCB-Pool, MultiPCB etc which price solely on PCB Area> Hobby projects and BGA's don't go together, almost anyone can hand > solder on QFN packages with a little practice and a lot of "no-clean > flux".Really think about using BGAs... -- Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt --------- Tel. 06151 162516 -------- Fax. 06151 164321 ----------
Reply by ●November 7, 20052005-11-07
On 2005-11-07, Eric <ericjohnholland@hotmail.com> wrote:> The main issue with PCB123 and other free layout tools is you are > limited to only buy the boards from them. (Because their free programs > won't output Gerber files) > > I would use Eagle Cad if your PCB is 3.5"x2.5" or smaller. The free > version of Eagle Cad will allow you to output gerber files. Having > Gerbers files opens up so many more cost effective options for small > quantities of boards. > > Most board stuffing companies will due prototype (1-5) runs on boards, > but you are looking at aleast a $200 setup fee and about $30-40 per BGA > they place. If you have the option I would recommend staying away from > BGA's. > > Hobby projects and BGA's don't go together, almost anyone can hand > solder on QFN packages with a little practice and a lot of "no-clean > flux". > > Eric >The freeware version of Eagle does not support 4 layer. Take a look at the gEDA project. I used gSchem and PCB to do a 4 layer with a BGA on it. Learning to use this software takes time, but once you learn it, it is very fast to use. The PCB program produces gerbers. http://www.geda.seul.org/docs/current/tutorials/gsch2pcb/tutorial.html http://geda.seul.org I would avoid the BGA parts if possible. I do use them, but only when absolutely necessary. I assemble them at home using a reflow oven I built from a toaster oven. All other parts get soldered by hand using my metcal iron with a large angled chisel tip and lots of water soluble flux. I use the no touch service from http://protoexpress.com for 4 layers. Darrell Harmon http://dlharmon.com/dspcard
Reply by ●November 13, 20052005-11-13
In article <1131335642.675799.9240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, rziak <news@ziak.com> wrote:> Is it possible to route signals through FPGA from any I/O to any I/O > (i.e. like matrix switch) and how many cells would such functionality > need for matrix of approx 30 x 60 ?(I don't know enough FPGA stuff to answer your question but:) Part of that depends on how fast you need it to be. If you need to route signals at say 1 MHz, and don't care too much about latency, you can have a bus structure, where each I and O attaches to the bus. A counter addresses each input in turn, and that input drives the bus. Each output is watching the counter, and when each one sees the particular input number it's routing, it grabs the data from the bus and outputs it. -- David M. Palmer dmpalmer@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)
Reply by ●November 14, 20052005-11-14
David M. Palmer wrote:> In article <1131335642.675799.9240@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, rziak > <news@ziak.com> wrote: > > > Is it possible to route signals through FPGA from any I/O to any I/O > > (i.e. like matrix switch) and how many cells would such functionality > > need for matrix of approx 30 x 60 ?FPGA are generally constructed with blocks (for example: 8 for Xilinx Spartian 3). You can construct any I/O functions within blocks. However, there are limited connecting resources between blocks. The compiler and floor planner will tell you the amount of resources used for constructions as well as cross connections. Therefore, it is better to treat FPGA blocks as functional blocks. For a general matrix switch, perhaps a CPLD would fit better.> > (I don't know enough FPGA stuff to answer your question but:) > > Part of that depends on how fast you need it to be. > > If you need to route signals at say 1 MHz, and don't care too much > about latency, you can have a bus structure, where each I and O > attaches to the bus. A counter addresses each input in turn, and that > input drives the bus. Each output is watching the counter, and when > each one sees the particular input number it's routing, it grabs the > data from the bus and outputs it.This will quickly violate the fan-in and fan-out rules.> > -- > David M. Palmer dmpalmer@email.com (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)
