techie_alison wrote:> As for the Sony thing, without that algorithm it aint going nowhere, I can't > implement full compatiability without it. It would have generated about > 10,000 units with the dies etched in China, and it's the company's decision > not to sign contracts with Sony so therefore it's a management decision.They should be thankful you haven't found a way into the algorithm. Poking about in Sony's DRM schemes without a license is a guaranteed way to a lawsuit. I don't recall for sure, but I think there are patent considerations - I am QUITE sure there are DMCA problems.
Sony Magic Gate Memory Cards
Started by ●January 21, 2006
Reply by ●January 27, 20062006-01-27
Reply by ●January 29, 20062006-01-29
"larwe" <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1138394167.465197.189140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...>> They should be thankful you haven't found a way into the algorithm. > Poking about in Sony's DRM schemes without a license is a guaranteed > way to a lawsuit. I don't recall for sure, but I think there are patent > considerations - I am QUITE sure there are DMCA problems. >Yep, the US side of the company had initially thrown $100k figures about for a full licence. Also while researching this it's become clear that certainly in the US it's a criminal act to try to disect something such as an algorithm. While I haven't tried to unravel the algorithm I'd hope that it's sufficiantly secure not to be able to do so. My 3rd year thesis was about cryptography, with the main danger pointed out that sensitive highly encrypted data (military for example) could be captured today and revealed in 5 years time when processing power has evolved. So while the bad guys might not have access to the data now, in time they will do. Equally so, the Sony MG algorithm will come out in years to come.
Reply by ●January 30, 20062006-01-30
In message <1138394167.465197.189140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> writes> >techie_alison wrote: >> As for the Sony thing, without that algorithm it aint going nowhere, I can't >> implement full compatiability without it. It would have generated about >> 10,000 units with the dies etched in China, and it's the company's decision >> not to sign contracts with Sony so therefore it's a management decision. > >They should be thankful you haven't found a way into the algorithm. >Poking about in Sony's DRM schemes without a license is a guaranteed >way to a lawsuit. I don't recall for sure, but I think there are patent >considerations - I am QUITE sure there are DMCA problems. >Wow, welcome to the land of the free. There's precedent set in English law IIRC that specifically enables you to reverse engineer (Mars vending and coin mechs) a protocol, I think you'd have to be able to prove 'clean room' techniques via documentation to be safe though. Can't quite believe that you can't take a logic analyser and scope to equipment that you've paid for without risking getting your butt fried. Hopefully we'll be able to hunt lawyer instead of foxes if they ever become that much of a nuisance over here. -- Clint Sharp
Reply by ●January 30, 20062006-01-30
Clint Sharp wrote:> >Poking about in Sony's DRM schemes without a license is a guaranteed > >way to a lawsuit. I don't recall for sure, but I think there are patent > >considerations - I am QUITE sure there are DMCA problems. > > > Wow, welcome to the land of the free. There's precedent set in English > law IIRC that specifically enables you to reverse engineer (Mars vendingDMCA trumps interoperability if you are building a "circumvention device". It requires a lawsuit to determine what is and is not a circumvention device. So you might win, but it will cripple you financially. Walt Disney bought the land of the free. Soon there will be a tax on PIC12* series micros because they can be used to make PlayStation modchips.> 'clean room' techniques via documentation to be safe though. Can't quite > believe that you can't take a logic analyser and scope to equipment that > you've paid for without risking getting your butt fried. Hopefully we'llDoesn't matter how clean your room is: a) If you're infringing on a patent (lawsuit will determine yes or no to this) then you have to negotiate a license, no matter how you worked out how to implement it. b) If you're delving into DMCA, be prepared for a long and agonizing battle regardless of where the merits (if I can use such a word) lie. The best US case law on this is a case of Lexmark vs. someone who was making refurbished ink cartridges. Lexmark had some kind of crypto protocol between the printer and the cartridge to prevent people from doing this (the cart becomes useless once it is empty and the printer won't print unless it can talk to the chip in the cart). Lexmark sued someone who worked out the details and faked the chips. The defendant won. But it was not an easy victory and this particular situation (MG cards) is not the same by a long shot.
