Looking for an FPGA on a board (for fun...)

I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them, 
interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an FPGA.

At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to 
implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way 
communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.

I want to do things like drive an array of LEDs to be a VU meter, 
send/receive IR signals (using an integrated IR IC which I have currently 
rigged up to my PC's serial port to receive, and a much simpler circuit to 
send), read from (up to 2) temperature and humidity sensors, and hopefully 
(ultimately?) drive an LCD of some sort. I am thinking of starting with a 
basic 16x2 and later moving onto driving a small colour screen (which I have 
not chosen yet).

This is only what I currently want to do, and I expect my wishes to grow as 
I gain experience with the hardware and software, and I will probably need 
to be able to interface to many devices at once.

Now, I now some people will be reading this and thinking that I should get 
an MCU instead because it's cheaper, easier, ... . I wouldn't mind getting 
an MCU, but since I am doing this for fun, and not for profit, I am willing 
to try and kill two birds with one stone and learn about the hardware and 
software at the same time.

What I am after is a product, or someone's idea of a good collection of 
products that would make this possible, workable, and fun. I don't mind 
spending more money than one normally would on the parts since this is not 
for mass production. Something reasonably priced and easy to build on would 
be ideal.

Suggestions please. 

"C3" <_> wrote in message 
news:41877119$0$22771$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them, 
>interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an 
>FPGA.
>
> At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to 
> implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way 
> communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.
>
> I want to do things like drive an array of LEDs to be a VU meter, 
> send/receive IR signals (using an integrated IR IC which I have currently 
> rigged up to my PC's serial port to receive, and a much simpler circuit to 
> send), read from (up to 2) temperature and humidity sensors, and hopefully 
> (ultimately?) drive an LCD of some sort. I am thinking of starting with a 
> basic 16x2 and later moving onto driving a small colour screen (which I 
> have not chosen yet).
>
> This is only what I currently want to do, and I expect my wishes to grow 
> as I gain experience with the hardware and software, and I will probably 
> need to be able to interface to many devices at once.
>
> Now, I now some people will be reading this and thinking that I should get 
> an MCU instead because it's cheaper, easier, ... . I wouldn't mind getting 
> an MCU, but since I am doing this for fun, and not for profit, I am 
> willing to try and kill two birds with one stone and learn about the 
> hardware and software at the same time.
>
> What I am after is a product, or someone's idea of a good collection of 
> products that would make this possible, workable, and fun. I don't mind 
> spending more money than one normally would on the parts since this is not 
> for mass production. Something reasonably priced and easy to build on 
> would be ideal.

The cheapest way to get started is probably the new Xilinx Spartan-3 starter 
kit ($99).

http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/onlinestore.jsp?sGlobalNavPick=PURCHASE

Leon

"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:41877ed6$0$1821$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
> "C3" <_> wrote in message 
> news:41877119$0$22771$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them, 
>>interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an 
>>FPGA.
>>
>> At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to 
>> implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way 
>> communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.
>>
>> I want to do things like drive an array of LEDs to be a VU meter, 
>> send/receive IR signals (using an integrated IR IC which I have currently 
>> rigged up to my PC's serial port to receive, and a much simpler circuit 
>> to send), read from (up to 2) temperature and humidity sensors, and 
>> hopefully (ultimately?) drive an LCD of some sort. I am thinking of 
>> starting with a basic 16x2 and later moving onto driving a small colour 
>> screen (which I have not chosen yet).
>>
>> This is only what I currently want to do, and I expect my wishes to grow 
>> as I gain experience with the hardware and software, and I will probably 
>> need to be able to interface to many devices at once.
>>
>> Now, I now some people will be reading this and thinking that I should 
>> get an MCU instead because it's cheaper, easier, ... . I wouldn't mind 
>> getting an MCU, but since I am doing this for fun, and not for profit, I 
>> am willing to try and kill two birds with one stone and learn about the 
>> hardware and software at the same time.
>>
>> What I am after is a product, or someone's idea of a good collection of 
>> products that would make this possible, workable, and fun. I don't mind 
>> spending more money than one normally would on the parts since this is 
>> not for mass production. Something reasonably priced and easy to build on 
>> would be ideal.
>
> The cheapest way to get started is probably the new Xilinx Spartan-3 
> starter kit ($99).
>
> http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/onlinestore.jsp?sGlobalNavPick=PURCHASE
>
> Leon

Or direct from the makers (same price) and can get add-on boards at the same 
time.
www.digilentinc.com
https://digilent.us/Sales/System.cfm

For peripheral boards
https://digilent.us/Sales/Peripheral.cfm


Alex 

"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:41877ed6$0$1821$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
> "C3" <_> wrote in message
> news:41877119$0$22771$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> >I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them,
> >interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an
> >FPGA.
> >
> > At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to
> > implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way
> > communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.
> >
> > I want to do things like drive an array of LEDs to be a VU meter,
> > send/receive IR signals (using an integrated IR IC which I have
currently
> > rigged up to my PC's serial port to receive, and a much simpler circuit
to
> > send), read from (up to 2) temperature and humidity sensors, and
hopefully
> > (ultimately?) drive an LCD of some sort. I am thinking of starting with
a
> > basic 16x2 and later moving onto driving a small colour screen (which I
> > have not chosen yet).
> >
> > This is only what I currently want to do, and I expect my wishes to grow
> > as I gain experience with the hardware and software, and I will probably
> > need to be able to interface to many devices at once.
> >
> > Now, I now some people will be reading this and thinking that I should
get
> > an MCU instead because it's cheaper, easier, ... . I wouldn't mind
getting
> > an MCU, but since I am doing this for fun, and not for profit, I am
> > willing to try and kill two birds with one stone and learn about the
> > hardware and software at the same time.
> >
> > What I am after is a product, or someone's idea of a good collection of
> > products that would make this possible, workable, and fun. I don't mind
> > spending more money than one normally would on the parts since this is
not
> > for mass production. Something reasonably priced and easy to build on
> > would be ideal.
>
> The cheapest way to get started is probably the new Xilinx Spartan-3
starter
> kit ($99).
>
> http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/onlinestore.jsp?sGlobalNavPick=PURCHASE
>
> Leon
>

With the current FPSLIC promotion, you can get the FPSLIC for about $50.
catch is that you need an STK500 as well.

With the FPSLIC you get both an MCU and the FPGA....
The FPGA contains 16 kB of SRAM useable by the FPGA for a monochrome graphic
screen.
The coverification environment is nice.
You get a 4 month license, but this can be extended if you write a nice
application note
describing what you do.

-- 
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they
may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden.

"C3" <_> wrote in message news:<41877119$0$22771$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>...
> I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them, 
> interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an FPGA.
> 
> At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to 
> implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way 
> communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.
> 
> I want to do things like drive an array of LEDs to be a VU meter, 
> send/receive IR signals (using an integrated IR IC which I have currently 
> rigged up to my PC's serial port to receive, and a much simpler circuit to 
> send), read from (up to 2) temperature and humidity sensors, and hopefully 
> (ultimately?) drive an LCD of some sort. I am thinking of starting with a 
> basic 16x2 and later moving onto driving a small colour screen (which I have 
> not chosen yet).
> 
> This is only what I currently want to do, and I expect my wishes to grow as 
> I gain experience with the hardware and software, and I will probably need 
> to be able to interface to many devices at once.
> 
> Now, I now some people will be reading this and thinking that I should get 
> an MCU instead because it's cheaper, easier, ... . I wouldn't mind getting 
> an MCU, but since I am doing this for fun, and not for profit, I am willing 
> to try and kill two birds with one stone and learn about the hardware and 
> software at the same time.
> 
> What I am after is a product, or someone's idea of a good collection of 
> products that would make this possible, workable, and fun. I don't mind 
> spending more money than one normally would on the parts since this is not 
> for mass production. Something reasonably priced and easy to build on would 
> be ideal.
> 
> Suggestions please.


Go look at the stuff at www.fpga4fun.com  The Pluto board is nice.  

Somebody else already mentioned the $99 special from Xilinx.  

A good selection of toys can be found at www.burched.biz.  He is
having a "sale" through the end of November.  I'm sure they can get
you an updated price sheet.

Rob Young
rwyoung@ieee.nospam.org

"Leon Heller" <leon_heller@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
> "C3" <_> wrote in message 
> >I would like to learn more about electronics (FPGAs, programming them, 
> >interfacing with analogue circuitry etc.), so I have decided to get an 
> >FPGA.
> >
> > At first, I want to play with it to see how it works, and then I want to 
> > implement some "personal interest projects". These will require two-way 
> > communication with my PC, and if possible, my Ethernet network.
> 
> The cheapest way to get started is probably the new Xilinx Spartan-3 starter 
> kit ($99).
> 
> http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xebiz/onlinestore.jsp?sGlobalNavPick=PURCHASE
> 

The Digilent-made S3 board (which is what Xilinx will also sell you)
is a great package at a great price, however it's substantially more
complicated to get going than a microncontroller project, because you
have to build the microcontroller!  True, you can download other
people's projects as a starting point, but there's a lot to learn. 
What you do get for this is flexibility, and the chance to get your
fingers on every stage of the system.  Past experience hooking things
up to a processor is a big help in figuring out how to make things
work.

Some things like ethernet and USB are also pretty complicated -
do-able, but not trivial unless you can find most of the solution
ready to download somewhere or offload most of the work to a helper
board.

In theory though, an fpga of this size can do most things a
microcontoller can - so if you find someone's web page describing a
pic project that looks cool, you can probably copy the hard parts and
just adapt a few things to your setting.  You might even find a
downloadable core for the microcontroller they used!

My one major dislike of the digilent S3 board is the scarcity of
grounds on the 3 40-pin I/O connectors - ONE each!  That's okay for
slow speed I/O, but I'm worried I may have to do some surgery and
attach annother connector to the ground plane if I try to crank up the
speed on my IDE disk interface, for example.  Something that would be
really cool would be a little board to extend one of these connectors
to a few ISA bus slots, so one could play with old PC expansion cards
as a source of cheap helper chips.  Watch out for the 3.3v I/O though
- series resistors are needed on inputs that will be driven by
external 5v logic.

Also, anyone doing system-on-a-chip work in a Xilinx FPGA should at
minimum learn how to use a .bmm file so that you can replace the
program ROM without having to recompile the whole project.   If you
JTAG-configure the FPGA directly rather than programming the on-board
config rom, this gets your burn-crash-"hmm" cycle under a minute.

Chris

(btw, this email address no longer works)

Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> With the current FPSLIC promotion, you can get the
> FPSLIC for about $50.

Can you provide details on this promo?  Nothing obvious on the website,
and Digi-Key has the STK594 at $99.

(Incidentally, why is the STK94 $500?  STK500+594 seems functionally
similar.)


> You get a 4 month license, but this can be extended

Not a game for the casual experimenter, it seems - $2500 for a license,
plus $500/yr maintenance.  Are there low-cost alternatives that support
the FPSLIC?

Thanks,
Richard

"Richard" <rh86@no.spam> skrev i meddelandet
news:4189B289.2AD20E5A@no.spam...
> Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
> > With the current FPSLIC promotion, you can get the
> > FPSLIC for about $50.
>
> Can you provide details on this promo?  Nothing obvious on the website,
> and Digi-Key has the STK594 at $99.
>

I think All Atmel distis should have this offer.
Check out www.ebv.com


> (Incidentally, why is the STK94 $500?  STK500+594 seems functionally
> similar.)
>

No clue

> > You get a 4 month license, but this can be extended
>
> Not a game for the casual experimenter, it seems - $2500 for a license,
> plus $500/yr maintenance.  Are there low-cost alternatives that support
> the FPSLIC?
>
> Thanks,
> Richard


Write a nice app note, and you will get an extension for 6 months.
Atmel  pays Mentor for the toolset.
Buy a new STK594 every 4 months.
or buy a couple now at $50 form a disti which knows about the promotion.
Then activate as you need it.

The Atmel place and route is free, but you need to genrerate the *.edf file
somehow.


-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson   ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This is a personal view which may or may not be
share by my Employer Atmel Nordic AB

Has anyone had a look at the new Protel (Altium devel board)

http://www.altium.com/livedesign/

It's $99

Carsten

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! It looks like the Spartan 3 + a few 
add-on boards is the go for me.


C3