ARM7 with longevity of supply

I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond 
the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based 
around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that 
this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the 
tools and knowledge.

However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge there 
too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to ARM and 
side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. ARM7 should be 
more than enough for what I need.

I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
* Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders 
and examples.
* Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also 
RAM/ROM.
* Must have JTAG interface.
* Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
* Must have watchdog timer.
* Must not be in a BGA package.

I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
Freescale MAC7111
Phillips LPC2292/2294
ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)

Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some 
sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been burnt 
before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products and 
don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came with 
a good reference design. 

Tom Lucas wrote:
> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond
> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based
> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that
> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the
> tools and knowledge.
>
> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge there
> too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to ARM and
> side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. ARM7 should be
> more than enough for what I need.
>
> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
> and examples.
> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
> RAM/ROM.
> * Must have JTAG interface.
> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
> * Must have watchdog timer.
> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>
> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
> Freescale MAC7111
> Phillips LPC2292/2294
> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>
> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been burnt
> before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products and
> don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came with
> a good reference design.

FWIW, the Philips LPC2104/5/6 are still in production after four years
or so. The same should apply to newer chips like the LPC2292/4.

Leon

"Leon" <leon.heller@bulldoghome.com> wrote in message 
news:1163610015.608674.134250@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Tom Lucas wrote:
>> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond
>> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based
>> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that
>> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the
>> tools and knowledge.
>>
>> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge 
>> there
>> too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to ARM and
>> side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. ARM7 should 
>> be
>> more than enough for what I need.
>>
>> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
>> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
>> and examples.
>> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
>> RAM/ROM.
>> * Must have JTAG interface.
>> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
>> * Must have watchdog timer.
>> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>>
>> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
>> Freescale MAC7111
>> Phillips LPC2292/2294
>> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>>
>> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
>> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been 
>> burnt
>> before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products 
>> and
>> don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came 
>> with
>> a good reference design.
>
> FWIW, the Philips LPC2104/5/6 are still in production after four years
> or so. The same should apply to newer chips like the LPC2292/4.
>
> Leon

That's reassuring because I rather fancy the LPC2292 for the job. 

Tom Lucas wrote:
> "Leon" <leon.heller@bulldoghome.com> wrote in message 
> news:1163610015.608674.134250@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> 
>>Tom Lucas wrote:
>>
>>>I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond
>>>the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based
>>>around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that
>>>this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the
>>>tools and knowledge.
>>>
>>>However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge 
>>>there
>>>too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to ARM and
>>>side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. ARM7 should 
>>>be
>>>more than enough for what I need.
>>>
>>>I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
>>>* Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
>>>and examples.
>>>* Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
>>>RAM/ROM.
>>>* Must have JTAG interface.
>>>* Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
>>>* Must have watchdog timer.
>>>* Must not be in a BGA package.
>>>
>>>I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
>>>Freescale MAC7111
>>>Phillips LPC2292/2294
>>>ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>>>
>>>Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
>>>sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been 
>>>burnt
>>>before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products 
>>>and
>>>don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came 
>>>with
>>>a good reference design.
>>
>>FWIW, the Philips LPC2104/5/6 are still in production after four years
>>or so. The same should apply to newer chips like the LPC2292/4.
>>
>>Leon
> 
> 
> That's reassuring because I rather fancy the LPC2292 for the job. 
> 
> 
Greetings,

We are just about to complete the design of a new product using an Atmel 
AT91SAM7S. It does, however, not have an exernal port but the AT91SAM7X 
does. A big difference between this and the Phillips (don't know about 
the other brands) is that the Atmel has a DMA controller.

That's one more device to consider...

/RaceMouse

"Tom Lucas" <news@REMOVE_auto_THIS_flame_TO_REPLY.clara.co.uk> writes:
> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders 
> and examples.
> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also 
> RAM/ROM.
> * Must have JTAG interface.
> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
> * Must have watchdog timer.
> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>
> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
> Freescale MAC7111
> Phillips LPC2292/2294
> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>
> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some 
> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been burnt 
> before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products and 
> don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came with 
> a good reference design. 

If you have not already, checkout 

<http://www.gnuarm.com/ArmDevices_frame.html> for a good list.

Also put "ARM7" into digikey for a good overview of what is
available.

Re external bus, this is available on most device families. But don't
forget you may be able to bit-bang your old peripherals just as
easily.

-- 

John Devereux

Tom Lucas wrote:
> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond
> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based
> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that
> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the
> tools and knowledge.
>
> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge
> there too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to
> ARM and side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188.
> ARM7 should be more than enough for what I need.
>
> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
> and examples.
> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
> RAM/ROM.
> * Must have JTAG interface.
> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
> * Must have watchdog timer.
> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>
> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
> Freescale MAC7111
> Phillips LPC2292/2294
> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>
> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been
> burnt before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue
> products and don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy
> if they came with a good reference design.

If you need external bus to connect to 8 bit peripherals,
there are plenty of AT91 chips around.
AT91M40800
AT91M42800A
AT91M55200A
AT91R40008
They are all microcontrollers requiring external flash.

The new AT91SAM7SE512 has SAM7S features and an external bus.
There will be pincompatible versions available soon with less than 512 kB 
Flash

If you already decided you need external flash/RAM you should
also consider the AT91SAM9260.
Dirt cheap and runs 3-4 x performance of ARM7TDMI at 200 MHz.
It is available in a 208 PQFP package.
An SPI Dataflash (pin compatible from 1 Mbit to 64 Mbit) and a cheap SDRAM
and you are in business.

The BootROM allows for real easy production.
Connect the CPU SPI bus with a flat cable to the testsystem
    The testsystem has a an SPI flash with the production code.
    Alternatively, you can have an MMC connector and have the flash in a 
flash card.

Reset the CPU.
When the CPU boots up, it will boot from the flash(card) in the testsystem 
and copy
    the image into another SPI flash residing on your production board.
Remove the cable and press reset.
The CPU will now boot from the internal SPI flash.




-- 
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
ulf@a-t-m-e-l.com
This message is intended to be my own personal view and it
may or may not be shared by my employer Atmel Nordic AB 

Tom Lucas wrote:
> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond 
> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based 
> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that 
> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the 
> tools and knowledge.
> 
> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge there 
> too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to ARM and 
> side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. ARM7 should be 
> more than enough for what I need.
> 
> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders 
> and examples.
> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also 
> RAM/ROM.
> * Must have JTAG interface.
> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
> * Must have watchdog timer.
> * Must not be in a BGA package.
> 
> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
> Freescale MAC7111
> Phillips LPC2292/2294
> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
> 
> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some 
> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been burnt 
> before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products and 
> don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came with 
> a good reference design. 
> 
> 

Seems something in the TI TMS470 series might fit the bill, if you're 
still looking at stuff. I'm designing a new product around one of these 
for various reasons, and TI has given me assurances they are going to be 
produced for at least the next 6 years (that's as far as the roadmap 
goes, apparently).

The Philips part is nice too, but I needed features not available on those.

Parametric table here:

http://focus.ti.com/paramsearch/docs/parametricsearch.tsp?familyId=454&sectionId=95&tabId=1216&family=mcu&paramCriteria=no

Cheers

PeteS

"PeteS" <peter.smith8380@ntlworld.com> wrote in message 
news:CTJ6h.39441$Ib.22108@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
> Tom Lucas wrote:
>> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond 
>> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based 
>> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that 
>> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the 
>> tools and knowledge.
>>
>> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge 
>> there too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to 
>> ARM and side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188. 
>> ARM7 should be more than enough for what I need.
>>
>> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
>> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders 
>> and examples.
>> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also 
>> RAM/ROM.
>> * Must have JTAG interface.
>> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
>> * Must have watchdog timer.
>> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>>
>> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
>> Freescale MAC7111
>> Phillips LPC2292/2294
>> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>>
>> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some 
>> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been 
>> burnt before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue 
>> products and don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy 
>> if they came with a good reference design.
>
> Seems something in the TI TMS470 series might fit the bill, if you're 
> still looking at stuff. I'm designing a new product around one of 
> these for various reasons, and TI has given me assurances they are 
> going to be produced for at least the next 6 years (that's as far as 
> the roadmap goes, apparently).

Someone warned me off the TI parts because the datasheet is inaccurate 
apparently and they won't talk to you unless you are tier 1 automaotive. 
Something about high impedance not really being high impedance or 
something. However, this is purely anecdotal and not something I have 
personal experience of.

"John Devereux" <jdREMOVE@THISdevereux.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:873b8keg5k.fsf@cordelia.devereux.me.uk...
> "Tom Lucas" <news@REMOVE_auto_THIS_flame_TO_REPLY.clara.co.uk> writes:
>> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
>> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
>> and examples.
>> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
>> RAM/ROM.
>> * Must have JTAG interface.
>> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
>> * Must have watchdog timer.
>> * Must not be in a BGA package.
>>
>> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
>> Freescale MAC7111
>> Phillips LPC2292/2294
>> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
>>
>> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
>> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been 
>> burnt
>> before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue products 
>> and
>> don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy if they came 
>> with
>> a good reference design.
>
> If you have not already, checkout
>
> <http://www.gnuarm.com/ArmDevices_frame.html> for a good list.

Good link, thanks for that.

> Also put "ARM7" into digikey for a good overview of what is
> available.

Will do

> Re external bus, this is available on most device families. But don't
> forget you may be able to bit-bang your old peripherals just as
> easily.

My life is hard enough already ;-) 

Tom Lucas wrote:
> "PeteS" <peter.smith8380@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:CTJ6h.39441$Ib.22108@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
> > Tom Lucas wrote:
> >> I have a design based around a Z8 Encore which is soon to grow beyond
> >> the capabilities of the Z8. Several of our other products are based
> >> around Intel 80188 microcontrollers and it was initially thought that
> >> this would be a good route to upgrade seeing as we already have the
> >> tools and knowledge.
> >>
> >> However, I also have tools for ARM based processors and knowledge
> >> there too so I thought it would be more sensible to go straight to
> >> ARM and side-step the looming obsolescence issues with the 80188.
> >> ARM7 should be more than enough for what I need.
> >>
> >> I've narrowed down my choices using the following criteria:
> >> * Must have full IAR compiler support including headers, flashloaders
> >> and examples.
> >> * Must have an external bus to connect to 8bit peripherals and also
> >> RAM/ROM.
> >> * Must have JTAG interface.
> >> * Must have minimum 16bit timers, preferably 32 bit.
> >> * Must have watchdog timer.
> >> * Must not be in a BGA package.
> >>
> >> I believe this narrows the selection down to the following parts:
> >> Freescale MAC7111
> >> Phillips LPC2292/2294
> >> ST Electronics STR710/750 (non-BGA flavours)
> >>
> >> Are there any that I've missed? Are these parts likely to have some
> >> sensible longevity? 3 years would be good, five better. I've been
> >> burnt before with manufacturers suddenly deciding to discontinue
> >> products and don't want to get burned again. It would also be handy
> >> if they came with a good reference design.
> >
> > Seems something in the TI TMS470 series might fit the bill, if you're
> > still looking at stuff. I'm designing a new product around one of
> > these for various reasons, and TI has given me assurances they are
> > going to be produced for at least the next 6 years (that's as far as
> > the roadmap goes, apparently).
>
> Someone warned me off the TI parts because the datasheet is inaccurate
> apparently and they won't talk to you unless you are tier 1 automaotive.
> Something about high impedance not really being high impedance or
> something. However, this is purely anecdotal and not something I have
> personal experience of.

The TI documentation can be infuriating at times, but I have no problem
getting the parts (but that could be because I already use a lot of TI
parts) and I'm certainly not a tier 1 automotive mfr ;)

As I said, my situation sorta pushed me that way for certain groups of
features, not because they are any better than the competition.

Cheers

PeteS