Embedded Systems Conference priced out of reach?

In article <lK4Ah.12231$z54.10333@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, 
nospam@devnul.co.uk says...
> Paul Carpenter wrote:
> 
> > The things we get can be ridiculous
> > 
> >    "Get small qauantities from DigiKey/RS/Farnell"
> >     (parts are too new for any of them to carry or will never
> >      be carried by them)
> > 
> >    "Only in MOQ of full tray/box of hundreds"
> >     (distibutor is actually just a freight forwarder)
> > 
> >    "Samples only sent to same company that must be taking the
> >     volume quantities"
> >     ('distributor' that would only send mains connector samples
> >      to same company GUARANTEEING minimum annual usage of 1000 parts)
> > 
> >    Distributors/manufacturers that have web sites with NO leadtime
> >    or pricing summary, let alone full details.
> > 
> >    Samples questionaires that require multiple corporate signoffs and
> >    a day to fill in.
> >
> 
> One company that is very good on samples and tech support in general is 
> analog devices. No quibble, order online, no hassle and the samples are 
> there in a few days at most. AD have had several design in's here 
> because the product and business attitude and the quality is always 
> first class as well. The amount of goodwill generated is considerable 
> and more manufacturers need to wake up to the idea.
> 
I'll second the opinion on AD.   I also find it easy to get parts--
either samples or small quantity purchases from the Linear Tech Web
site.   If  the web site will sell me  5 pieces at a reasonable 
cost plus shipping,  I see no need to bug them for free samples.

I've also upgraded my opinion of Maxim in the last year.  I'm finding
a better selection on the web site and have even been able to get
small production quantities  of some parts.   They're not yet up
to the level of AD or Linear, but the web site makes things a lot
better than it was five years ago.

Mark Borgerson

Mark Borgerson wrote:
> In article <lK4Ah.12231$z54.10333@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, 
> nospam@devnul.co.uk says...
> 
>>
>>One company that is very good on samples and tech support in general is 
>>analog devices. No quibble, order online, no hassle and the samples are 
>>there in a few days at most. AD have had several design in's here 
>>because the product and business attitude and the quality is always 
>>first class as well. The amount of goodwill generated is considerable 
>>and more manufacturers need to wake up to the idea.
>>
> 
> I'll second the opinion on AD.

Unfortunately, the AD goodwill comes with the price tag. But the worst 
habit of AD is the sudden increase in the price of the new products 
after an 'introductory' period. I have burned with that several times. 
You got the part designed in, and after a year of production you find 
out that the part is almost twice more expensive then it used to be!

> I also find it easy to get parts--
> either samples or small quantity purchases from the Linear Tech Web
> site.   If  the web site will sell me  5 pieces at a reasonable 
> cost plus shipping,  I see no need to bug them for free samples.

LT is the expensive company also, and so is Maxim. My current preference 
is TI/BB and NS for their good availability and reasonable 
price/performance.

> I've also upgraded my opinion of Maxim in the last year.  I'm finding
> a better selection on the web site and have even been able to get
> small production quantities  of some parts.   They're not yet up
> to the level of AD or Linear, but the web site makes things a lot
> better than it was five years ago.


Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

http://www.abvolt.com

CBFalconer wrote:

> Joerg wrote:
> 
>>Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:
>>
> 
> ... snip ...
> 
>>>Get up early, disgustfull security check, procrustean seat, between
>>>the giggling monkey and the snoring pig, delayed flight, airport
>>>junk food, lost luggage, staying in a line here, staying in a line
>>>there, hangover all the way, looking for a woman, oh hi I have never
>>>met any russians before, what brought you to US, stupid feeling
>>>after locking your key in the hotel room, don't forget to retun the
>>>rental car with full tank, here are the charges for the things you
>>>didn't order...
>>
>>:-)))
>>
>>Well, I have a slight advantage here. I can drive to San Jose if I
>>wanted to. Ok, it'll take anywhere between two and five hours. But I
>>could, if I wanted to. Not that I want to. But I could...
> 
> 
> If Vladimir can influence Putin, Alaska, and Bush & gang to fund a
> bridge over the Bering strait, he too can drive to it.  Maybe (I
> understand the Siberian highway system is not the best, also the
> Alaskan). :-)
> 

AFAIK he is in Oklahoma so he would only need bridges that are already 
there. Still one heck of a long drive though.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

CBFalconer wrote:

> 
> If Vladimir can influence Putin, Alaska, and Bush & gang to fund a
> bridge over the Bering strait, he too can drive to it.  Maybe (I
> understand the Siberian highway system is not the best, also the
> Alaskan). :-)

Actually I live in US since a while ago, although in Oklahoma :-)
San Jose is a 6 hour flight with one change at the best case.

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

http://www.abvolt.com

Paul Carpenter wrote:


[...]


> You wonder at times how anybody but the existing large companies
> gets from prototype to production quantities.
> 

When looking at my design-in rates per company the short answer would 
be: They don't.

The only small one that excels is AD. Although I must, to some extent, 
second Vladimir's statement that sometimes the prices jump up in 
hindsight. Not necessarily right away but it has happened after a few 
years. The AD603 is a wonderful chip but it has now crept above $5 
street price. So I am not designing them in anymore. It's back to ye 
olde discretes.

BTW Digikey is IMHO slowly deteriorating as a supplier. "Our site is 
currently being updated. Please retry your request in a few minutes" 
does kind of get old now. Guys at Digikey: Fix it or hire better IT 
folks. It's not rocket science to mirror a site.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

In article <wu6Ah.43791$Gr2.25054@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>, 
antispam_bogus@hotmail.com says...
> 
> 
> Mark Borgerson wrote:
> > In article <lK4Ah.12231$z54.10333@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, 
> > nospam@devnul.co.uk says...
> > 
> >>
> >>One company that is very good on samples and tech support in general is 
> >>analog devices. No quibble, order online, no hassle and the samples are 
> >>there in a few days at most. AD have had several design in's here 
> >>because the product and business attitude and the quality is always 
> >>first class as well. The amount of goodwill generated is considerable 
> >>and more manufacturers need to wake up to the idea.
> >>
> > 
> > I'll second the opinion on AD.
> 
> Unfortunately, the AD goodwill comes with the price tag. But the worst 
> habit of AD is the sudden increase in the price of the new products 
> after an 'introductory' period. I have burned with that several times. 
> You got the part designed in, and after a year of production you find 
> out that the part is almost twice more expensive then it used to be!
> 
> > I also find it easy to get parts--
> > either samples or small quantity purchases from the Linear Tech Web
> > site.   If  the web site will sell me  5 pieces at a reasonable 
> > cost plus shipping,  I see no need to bug them for free samples.
> 
> LT is the expensive company also, and so is Maxim. My current preference 
> is TI/BB and NS for their good availability and reasonable 
> price/performance.

I'm in a market where the electronic components are only about 10-20% of 
the sales price and specifications and simplicity in the design count
for more than component cost.  PRODUCTION volumes are a few hundred
units per year, tops.

I do end up with TI/BB parts for a lot of stuff though---particularly
digital logic.  They are well covered by DigiKey.
> 
> > I've also upgraded my opinion of Maxim in the last year.  I'm finding
> > a better selection on the web site and have even been able to get
> > small production quantities  of some parts.   They're not yet up
> > to the level of AD or Linear, but the web site makes things a lot
> > better than it was five years ago.
> 

Mark Borgerson

Joerg posted on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:24:57 GMT:

"[..]

The only small one that excels is AD. [..]

[..]"

Am I going to be the only one to complain that an employee in Analog
Devices has said that he will do something but did not do it? The
documentation on its website was excellent, but the employees of Analog
Devices I have spoken to were not.

Regards,
Colin Paul Gloster

Colin Paul Gloster wrote:

> Joerg posted on Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:24:57 GMT:
> 
> "[..]
> 
> The only small one that excels is AD. [..]
> 
> [..]"
> 
> Am I going to be the only one to complain that an employee in Analog
> Devices has said that he will do something but did not do it? The
> documentation on its website was excellent, but the employees of Analog
> Devices I have spoken to were not.
> 

There will always be employees in any company who aren't quite up to 
expectations. However, I found those at AD to be generally excellent. 
Although I must say that the quality of some recent app notes leaves 
much to be desired. But that is the case with most companies. When I see 
what comes from colleges these days it doesn't surprise me much.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

In article <oJOzh.21503$zH1.14299@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>, Joerg 
<notthisjoergsch@removethispacbell.net> writes
>Ulf Samuelsson wrote:
>
>>>>If I were working in marketing for Atmel, MicroChip, IAR,
>>>>etc.  I'd have my boothies do a little pre-qualifying and
>>>>hand out passes for the kind of free  seminars they
>>>>hold where you get a morning with some FAEs,  lectures,
>>>>and a free dev kit.   For something like that, plus
>>>
>>>For the customers Atmel, Microchip, et al actually care about (i.e.
>>>the people whose minimum annual usage is 100K units of whatever), the
>>>marketing budget is spent on actually going and visiting those
>>>customers, handing out free eval kits, etc.
>>>
>>>At the company where I work, more or less every other week a semi mfr
>>>comes in, buys lunch for everyone in engineering who wants to attend,
>>>and presents a spiel and roadmap (and sometimes eval boards/demo
>>>kits).
>>>
>>>
>>   I think semiconductors calculate cost of sales should be around 4%.
>> If you think that you have a project which generate enough
>> business so that the revenue of your project will be 25 x
>> the cost of supporting you with a dedicated visit, you should request it.
>> In that calulation you need to take into account that work
>> spent on you may be useful to other customers as well.
>>  Not unfrequently, have I argued that my company needs to do a 
>>specific
>> thing for a small company, because that means that we will be ready
>> with that when the larger customers start to need it.
>> Not unfrequently have they listened.
>>  If you want to buy 50 chips, then you would probably get a no
>> on a visit, but at least Atmel runs seminars at a regular basis where
>> you for a nominal fee will get the full day + a kit.
>>
>
>Then there are us consultants who never buy more than a dozen chips but 
>where a design-win often means massive revenue. Some companies realize 
>that, others don't. The topper was a company that told me point blank 
>that they do not send samples to consultants. "But I'd gladly pay for 
>them". "No, we don't send samples to consultants". It was a part that 
>couldn't be purchased via Digikey. It did not get designed in...
>

This is a well known problem. Most silicon companies recognise this as 
do some of their distributors.

I have found that usually the tool distributors have access to dev kits 
and samples for most things. As they have a different model and they are 
not interested in how many chips you will be buying they will talk to 
you and supply samples.

I have no trouble getting samples for small companies.


-- 
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org      www.phaedsys.org \/\/\
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