PCB UV Box - Follow Up

In message <ifedndT2PNQUeorbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@bt.com>, Aly 
<?@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl.invalid> writes
>Hello,
Hi,
>Where I have my nails done they use one of the little UV boxes.  They're
>here on eBay;
>
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180104409706
>
>Now what I'm wondering is.  Would one of those do the job?  Or more to the
>point, would it be cost effective to strip one down and use the parts.
Hell yes, that looks fine. As long as you're happy to muck about with 
the mains cabling then go ahead.  If you have doubts about suitability, 
ask your local nail bar nicely if you can try theirs out! Bear in mind 
the shipping charge though, you can probably buy a ballast, lamps and 
fittings for less than the total and be guaranteed that you got the 
right thing.

>Thereafter ALL you need is an enclosure and some perspex.   Also today it's
>become clear regarding 4mm glass that suppliers either only stock
>UV-blocking glass, or don't even know at all.
Visit your local DIY shed, take a pen and paper, write down the 
manufacturer name on the perspex/polycarbonate/polystyrene sheets, track 
them down on t'internet and ask them... alternatively, ask your local 
glass supplier for some offcuts and do some experimentation with 
exposure (making sure not to get arrested in the process) Once you've 
finished exposing yourself, go home and try the glass you just got, make 
sure you mark the glass with the type first. Try a piece of photoresist 
PCB with a sliver of each type of glass and an uncovered section all at 
once so you can compare. Give it, say, 30 seconds and you should be able 
to tell the difference.
>  No one knows what they're
>selling anymore or even cares!!  This is the UK, it's a dump full of under
>achievers and everyone has a degree in Travel & Tourism or Marketing,
>everyone else is on state benefits.
See my other reply.

Seriously though, you can make a nice UV box out of a cheap toolbox or 
electric drill carry case if you have a mind to.. Alternatively you 
could try eBay (yeah, 'cause you'll get a bargain there...) or even your 
local freecycle, they seem to be full of academic/student types and may 
know of an electronics department with a spare lying around that can be 
acquired.
-- 
Clint Sharp

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:I5gaazCOJNGGFwhx@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
> In message <ifedndT2PNQUeorbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@bt.com>, Aly
> <?@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl.invalid> writes
<SNIP>
>
> Now that's just unfair, what about the valuable contribution made to
> society by all the meeja studies graduates? I don't work my ass off
> contributing my tax pounds to fund them for nothing, I value the
> opportunity to be served at McDonalds by a Travel and Tourism graduate,
> I thoroughly relish being asked if I want help with packing at my local
> supermarket by a marketing graduate.
>
> I'm proud to be able to say that my taxes enabled a generation of
> f***ing wasters to be able to work for just over minimum wage in call
> centres, supermarkets and fast food outlets and I am grateful for the
> current government's education plans for generations to come, where else
> would we find the fodder to staff our supermarkets and serve our skilled
> Polish immigrant craftsmen?
>
> Besides, if nobody went to university, who would get jobs to support
> everyone else on state benefits?
> --
> Clint Sharp

:-)

"john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4618dad5$0$16403$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
<SNIP>
> There's nothing special about these light box things. Don't allow
> distraction by talk of weird and wonderful exotic materials.
> The nail hardener thing (also insect killers, currency detectors et al)
> wouldn't be worth the effort to break down and the UV tubes will be be
quite
> weak. It's quite painful to look at the bare blue light of a real UV box.
> Built a box 7 tears ago for small 'one off PCBs'. Works well. Vital key is
> those UV tubes which Maplin offers at &#4294967295;16 for 2.
> Mine uses 4 Maplin UV tubes just clipped into 2 of those cheap 12V dc,
> camping florry lights thingies. Stuck in a MDF box lined with cooking
foil,
> with a normal glass window and a 12V power supply.
> High density black lines, printed on matt film and 7 minutes exposure
gives
> lines as fine as I can deal with. (ie those thin buggers that end up going
> in between the 0.1" IC pads).
>

Hey John :-)

Perked up again this end.  Must be something to do with Clint and his taxes.
:-)

Back on track..  Reading..  Those Maplin tubes I believe to be 8W 12" T5 UV
tubes.  Two for &#4294967295;15 odd, Maplin YA39N.  About the same at Rapid, 34-0707.

These are what I'm looking at on eBay which I believe to be the same at
&#4294967295;4.50ea.;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320101581708

Out local shop for local people is charging...  &#4294967295;5.84ea. although I'm not
sure if they'll allow local pickup.  I much prefer picking up locally.

http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=1037

I'm swaying towards thick perspex maybe, although have found that picture
framers are the ones to talk to about non-UV glass and offcuts.  4mm is a
minimum.

One of my electronic friends has mentioned banding caused by the intense UV
light in the area closest to the tubes, and is suggesting the &#4294967295;200 UV box
from Rapid, 34-0705 ;

http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx?style=0&kw=34-0705

I just want to build one really.  Spending &#4294967295;200 goes against why I even do
any of this.  I do it for fun :-)

The bits I can source at no cost; IDC, switch, ballast, starters.  The
outlay will be the flight case, say &#4294967295;20.  The tubes, say &#4294967295;20.  Glass, say &#4294967295;5
odd.  So give or take &#4294967295;50 for a decent little box.

:-)

Aly

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6kDGtHGC2RGGFwHl@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
> In message <ifedndT2PNQUeorbnZ2dnUVZ8tSdnZ2d@bt.com>, Aly
> <?@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl.invalid> writes
> >Hello,
<SNIP>

> Visit your local DIY shed, take a pen and paper, write down the
> manufacturer name on the perspex/polycarbonate/polystyrene sheets, track
> them down on t'internet and ask them... alternatively, ask your local
> glass supplier for some offcuts and do some experimentation with
> exposure (making sure not to get arrested in the process) Once you've
> finished exposing yourself, go home and try the glass you just got, make
> sure you mark the glass with the type first. Try a piece of photoresist
> PCB with a sliver of each type of glass and an uncovered section all at
> once so you can compare. Give it, say, 30 seconds and you should be able
> to tell the difference.
> >  No one knows what they're
> >selling anymore or even cares!!  This is the UK, it's a dump full of
under
> >achievers and everyone has a degree in Travel & Tourism or Marketing,
> >everyone else is on state benefits.
> See my other reply.
>
> Seriously though, you can make a nice UV box out of a cheap toolbox or
> electric drill carry case if you have a mind to.. Alternatively you
> could try eBay (yeah, 'cause you'll get a bargain there...) or even your
> local freecycle, they seem to be full of academic/student types and may
> know of an electronics department with a spare lying around that can be
> acquired.
> --
> Clint Sharp

Hey again Clint,

Reading...  Glass/perspex noted.

Oh I definitely would prefer to build one, keeping in with the spirit.  A
small 320 x 260 x 90mm flight case is what I'm hoping for.

We'll see what happens.  :-)  The case comes first, as that's oddly the
hardest bit to source.  I'm not paying &#4294967295;50 for a case I can get for &#4294967295;5-10 if
I'm patient.  :-)

This will all be documented too when I'm done.  I'm allowing maybe 2-3 weeks
on/off to do this.  But still tempted by the &#4294967295;200 one at Rapid, I can afford
it but I'm just too tight.  :-)  Why spend &#4294967295;200+ when you can spend &#4294967295;50..

Aly

"Aly" <,shfskfjsf@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl> wrote in message
news:heSdnU4kg8Or24TbnZ2dnUVZ8t-nnZ2d@bt.com...
> "john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4618dad5$0$16403$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>
[...]

> Hey John :-)
>
> Perked up again this end.  Must be something to do with Clint and his
taxes.
> :-)
>
> Back on track..  Reading..  Those Maplin tubes I believe to be 8W 12" T5
UV
> tubes.  Two for &#4294967295;15 odd, Maplin YA39N.  About the same at Rapid, 34-0707.
>
> These are what I'm looking at on eBay which I believe to be the same at
> &#4294967295;4.50ea.;
>
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320101581708
>
> Out local shop for local people is charging...  &#4294967295;5.84ea. although I'm not
> sure if they'll allow local pickup.  I much prefer picking up locally.
>
> http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=1037
>
> I'm swaying towards thick perspex maybe, although have found that picture
> framers are the ones to talk to about non-UV glass and offcuts.  4mm is a
> minimum.
>
> One of my electronic friends has mentioned banding caused by the intense
UV
> light in the area closest to the tubes, and is suggesting the &#4294967295;200 UV box
> from Rapid, 34-0705 ;
>
> http://www.rapidonline.com/searchresults.aspx?style=0&kw=34-0705
>
> I just want to build one really.  Spending &#4294967295;200 goes against why I even do
> any of this.  I do it for fun :-)
>
> The bits I can source at no cost; IDC, switch, ballast, starters.  The
> outlay will be the flight case, say &#4294967295;20.  The tubes, say &#4294967295;20.  Glass, say
&#4294967295;5
> odd.  So give or take &#4294967295;50 for a decent little box.
>
> :-)
>
> Aly
>
Tell your electronics friend to go bollocks. Banding or shadowing occurs
when a tube fails. I.e when the dark end of a big PCB is seeing maybe 1/5 of
the UV at the bright end. And isn't it amazing how people always know they
will be safe from risk and critism by recommending expensive commercial
product as an 'answer' to  any technical question?

My ISP for some reason will not let me use Google, so will check the links
tomorrow.
They look useful as I'm after half a dozen UV tubes for a metal
photo-etching light box I'm thinking about. A fiver or so each seems
reasonable, after all they're just standard tubes with a modified coating.
Perspex, 4mm glass, both OK. Maybe even better is  the  double glazing
acrylic sheet  sold by Wickes B+Q etc. The stuff is designed not to
discolour from the UV in sunlight. The plastics have to be cut though and
it's maybe easier just to call into the local glass shop and have them cut a
piece to size for a couple of quid.

But yes. I love to see a good heartfelt rant!. Nowadays, seemingly becoming
a British cultural pastime.



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In message <q6-dnc2jEsjs2oTbnZ2dneKdnZypnZ2d@bt.com>, Aly 
<?@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl.invalid> writes
>Hey again Clint,
>
>Reading...  Glass/perspex noted.
Also try local sign makers, neon signs especially, they will have 
offcuts of all shapes and sizes. Consider adding a matching number of 
white light tubes as well, that way you can use the light box to check 
your artwork before you expose a board and find the transparency was 
full of holes (bitter experience)
>
>Oh I definitely would prefer to build one, keeping in with the spirit.  A
>small 320 x 260 x 90mm flight case is what I'm hoping for.
Nice to find someone who isn't scared of doing something for themselves.
>
>We'll see what happens.  :-)  The case comes first, as that's oddly the
>hardest bit to source.  I'm not paying &#4294967295;50 for a case I can get for &#4294967295;5-10 if
>I'm patient.  :-)
How 'bout just under 20?
http://www.cpc.co.uk and search on order code TLTC03X
You could probably beat the price if you shopped around but if I were 
building one, I'd consider using a scavenged flatbed scanner for the 
case. You'd need to take some care stopping UV leaking out though.

>
>This will all be documented too when I'm done.  I'm allowing maybe 2-3 weeks
>on/off to do this.  But still tempted by the &#4294967295;200 one at Rapid, I can afford
>it but I'm just too tight.  :-)  Why spend &#4294967295;200+ when you can spend &#4294967295;50..
Totally agree, if I can't scrounge it or get it cheap I feel guilty, 
patience pays off as it's only a hobby (at home) so I can afford to wait 
if I can save a few pounds. Seriously though, if you can afford the 200 
quid one, take a look at eBay, they do turn up every now and then and 
generally sell much closer to your 50 quid than the 200 Rapid want.
>
>Aly
>
>

-- 
Clint Sharp

On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:50:22 +0100, "Aly" <,shfskfjsf@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl> wrote:

>Hello,
>
>First off, thank you to every one of you for answering the other thread.
>It's given me plenty to research and perhaps over analyse.
>
>I think I'm going to go for the ready kit put together by Rapid, this is
>written up below.  But before I do that I'm left wondering something..
>Where I have my nails done they use one of the little UV boxes.  They're
>here on eBay;
>
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180104409706
>
>Now what I'm wondering is.  Would one of those do the job?  Or more to the
>point, would it be cost effective to strip one down and use the parts.
>Thereafter ALL you need is an enclosure and some perspex.   Also today it's
>become clear regarding 4mm glass that suppliers either only stock
>UV-blocking glass, or don't even know at all.  No one knows what they're
>selling anymore or even cares!!  This is the UK, it's a dump full of under
>achievers and everyone has a degree in Travel & Tourism or Marketing,
>everyone else is on state benefits.

Normal glass is fine for a UV box.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:46:18 +0100, "Aly" <,shfskfjsf@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl> wrote:

>"john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4618dad5$0$16403$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>>
><SNIP>
>> There's nothing special about these light box things. Don't allow
>> distraction by talk of weird and wonderful exotic materials.
>> The nail hardener thing (also insect killers, currency detectors et al)
>> wouldn't be worth the effort to break down and the UV tubes will be be
>quite
>> weak. It's quite painful to look at the bare blue light of a real UV box.
>> Built a box 7 tears ago for small 'one off PCBs'. Works well. Vital key is
>> those UV tubes which Maplin offers at &#4294967295;16 for 2.
>> Mine uses 4 Maplin UV tubes just clipped into 2 of those cheap 12V dc,
>> camping florry lights thingies. Stuck in a MDF box lined with cooking
>foil,
>> with a normal glass window and a 12V power supply.
>> High density black lines, printed on matt film and 7 minutes exposure
>gives
>> lines as fine as I can deal with. (ie those thin buggers that end up going
>> in between the 0.1" IC pads).
>>
>
>Hey John :-)
>
>Perked up again this end.  Must be something to do with Clint and his taxes.
>:-)
>
>Back on track..  Reading..  Those Maplin tubes I believe to be 8W 12" T5 UV
>tubes.  Two for &#4294967295;15 odd, Maplin YA39N.  About the same at Rapid, 34-0707.
>
>These are what I'm looking at on eBay which I believe to be the same at
>&#4294967295;4.50ea.;
>
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320101581708
>
>Out local shop for local people is charging...  &#4294967295;5.84ea. although I'm not
>sure if they'll allow local pickup.  I much prefer picking up locally.
>
>http://www.bltdirect.com/products.php?cat=1037
>
>I'm swaying towards thick perspex maybe, although have found that picture
>framers are the ones to talk to about non-UV glass and offcuts.  4mm is a
>minimum.

ISTR reading somewhere that perspex is less UV-transparent than glass. Probably more important is
that it scratches much more easily than glass. I think I used 3mm glass on my A3 sized box - easily
strong enough if supported all round.  

>One of my electronic friends has mentioned banding caused by the intense UV
>light in the area closest to the tubes, and is suggesting the &#4294967295;200 UV box
>from Rapid, 34-0705 ;

Not a major issue - put some tracing paper or white paper on the glass and adjust the glass-to-tube
distance so the illumination looks reasonably even to the eye. It's not too critical. 
 

"Clint Sharp" <clint@clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dA5PEpMo6XGGFwg8@clintsmc.demon.co.uk...
> Totally agree, if I can't scrounge it or get it cheap I feel guilty,
> patience pays off as it's only a hobby (at home) so I can afford to wait
> if I can save a few pounds. Seriously though, if you can afford the 200
> quid one, take a look at eBay, they do turn up every now and then and
> generally sell much closer to your 50 quid than the 200 Rapid want.
> >
> >Aly
> >
> >
>
> --
> Clint Sharp

What's your opinion on this?  (and anyone's opinon for that matter).  I'm
humming and harring over it.  Trouble is the weight.  I can barely carry
25Kg.  Have a logic analyser which I don't use as it's too heavy to move
about, bought another one Thurlby LA4800 which is about 2Kg.  Anyway...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320100920597

&#4294967295;250.  Double sided.  I'm tempted, but need pushing.  I fancied a little UV
flight case I'd done myself for &#4294967295;50.

What do you experts think on that eBay one?  They're just down the road too
so can pickup, have already spoken to the guy.

Alison :-)

On Monday, in article
     <863k13hm10rubo3bt3o0lrgad0i06slcha@4ax.com>
     mike@whitewing.co.uk "Mike Harrison" wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:46:18 +0100, "Aly" <,shfskfjsf@sliuflky4iuhdf.erl> wrote:
>>"john jardine" <john@jjdesigns.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:4618dad5$0$16403$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...
>>>
>><SNIP>
>>> There's nothing special about these light box things. Don't allow
>>> distraction by talk of weird and wonderful exotic materials.
>>> The nail hardener thing (also insect killers, currency detectors et al)
>>> wouldn't be worth the effort to break down and the UV tubes will be be
>>quite
>>> weak. It's quite painful to look at the bare blue light of a real UV box.
......
>>I'm swaying towards thick perspex maybe, although have found that picture
>>framers are the ones to talk to about non-UV glass and offcuts.  4mm is a
>>minimum.
>
>ISTR reading somewhere that perspex is less UV-transparent than glass.

Some plastics (e.g. Polycabonate) will block parts of UV bandwidth, don't
know any that block the whole UV bandwidth, if that was the case sunglasses
would be made of them.

>Probably  more important is
>that it scratches much more easily than glass. I think I used 3mm glass on my
> A3 sized box - easily strong enough if supported all round.

Scratching and easier to mark (etch fluids etc..) also more susceptible
to various bending and warping over time. The tubes do get warm. Also
some plastics have higher refractive index and lower transfer rate which
can mess things up. The lower transfer rate usually means the plastic heats
up a small amount as it absorbs some of the UV. Also means longer exposure
times to get same amount of cumulative UV to the object.

>>One of my electronic friends has mentioned banding caused by the intense UV
>>light in the area closest to the tubes, and is suggesting the ?200 UV box
>>from Rapid, 34-0705 ;
>
>Not a major issue - put some tracing paper or white paper on the glass and
> adjust the glass-to-tube
>distance so the illumination looks reasonably even to the eye. It's not too
> critical. 

Getting even illumination is a major key, over the whole area.
get your interlocks (microswitches and relays) as well as heat dissipation
if used frequently.

Remember looking at a project for UV curing a glue on a plastic sheet
6ft x 3ft, with 5 tubes a couple of feet away for optimum evenness and using
reflective UV tubes. These are specialist tubes with internal reflector layer
on 60% of the inside surface, tubes are used for tanning couches and
industrial applications. We got mock up done but full blown mechanical jig
never got built.

-- 
Paul Carpenter          | paul@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/>    PC Services
<http://www.gnuh8.org.uk/>              GNU H8 & mailing list info
<http://www.badweb.org.uk/>             For those web sites you hate