Free/Cheap PCB Design Tools?

On May 13, 2:47 am, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:
> larwe wrote:
> >http://www.cadsoftusa.com[...]
> >Upgrading to the full version is reasonably priced.
> >I haven't found a viable competitor in the same price bracket.
>
> ...if you ignore their recent foray into DRM:

That's not recent at all. I think 4 years ago? (something in that
ballpark) when I acquired my professional license for EAGLE, I read a
lot about this in the Cadsoft newsgroups - and it's pretty clear that
the vast majority of people there were using cracked copies. The error
message given is quite obscure, intentionally so.

I only use libraries and schematics I have made myself, or downloaded
from the Cadsoft ftp server. While I agree this particular issue is
very annoying, and Cadsoft could/should have handled Markus's problem
more effectively, it is still on the whole better than the other
options, which are:

1. use really mavericky open-source software with no significant peer
userbase,

2. use outrageously expensive, heavily copy-protected (dongle, GUID
lock, MAC lock, or live Internet registration verification)
proprietary software, oftentimes with inbuilt expiry dates if
"maintenance" fees are not paid, or

3. use marginally functional, utterly proprietary tools from pissant
vendors who try to lock you into using their fabrication services by
squirrelling away your design data in unreadable binary files.

Don't get me wrong - if there was an open-source tool that had the
same critical mass of users, and reasonably effective support, plus
the same features I need out of EAGLE, I would of course prefer and
recommend the open-source route for design re-readability in future
epochs, and I would quite happily reinvest whatever time it takes to
rebuild the libraries I've generated for EAGLE. Sadly, there is no
credible open-source PCB CAD package yet.

Someone needs to do for CAD what OpenOffice.org did for desktop
productivity software. Unfortunately, this someone doesn't have any
time to work on such a project.

larwe wrote:
>>>http://www.cadsoftusa.com[...]
>>>I haven't found a viable competitor in the same price bracket.
>>>
JeffM wrote:
>>...if you ignore their recent foray into DRM:
>>http://groups.google.com/group/comp.arch.embedded/browse_frm/thread/f794e82d26b59e18/d7cf4149edb93ac7?q=*-*-website+reuse+paying.*+*-I-will-switch+cracked-*+*.would.not.help.*+zzz+after-*-*-version-*+copied+*.*.unlock.*.designs+*-*-*-*-exchange-*-*-*-*-third-party+reused+qq+*-*-single-bit-*-*-*-*+useless+*-*-*-projects-could-no-longer-be-opened
>>
larwe wrote:
>I read a lot about this in the Cadsoft newsgroups - and it's pretty clear
>that the vast majority of people there were using cracked copies.
>
Evades the point.
Markus said he was FULLY LICENSED--and still got spit on.

>Cadsoft could/should have handled Markus's problem more effectively
>
THAT is the point.
Punishing someone for the misdeeds of another someone
is a really LOUSY business model.

Cadsoft's not flagging a cracked component
WHEN AN ATTEMPT IS MADE TO INSERT IT
then **LATER** locking the legit user out of his work product
is sleezy on Cadsoft's part.

Like all DRM, it hurts the innocent legit customers the most.
Bad-mouth Open Source if you will,
but this crap doesn't happen in that realm.

On May 13, 10:51 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:

> Like all DRM, it hurts the innocent legit customers the most.

I wouldn't really classify this as DRM, because it doesn't protect the
IP in the file at all.

What it appears to boil down to is that when you save a file from
EAGLE, be it a component, a schematic or a PCB layout, the serial# of
your copy (or more likely a hash) is embedded in it. There isn't
really a crack per se for the 4.0x EAGLE versions; there's simply a
widely-circulated serial number/installation key. 4.1x EAGLE versions
recognize that key and won't load files that contain it. [Actually I
thought the flag date for this issue was 3.xx to 4.0x but it was so
long ago I'm probably misremembering].

Older versions of EAGLE didn't know to look for this blacklisted
serial number. Therefore they don't complain when loading files
containing "crackomatic" components. So you can continue to work on
"poisoned" designs using the old version. It's only newer versions
that have a problem.

For some time, Cadsoft was helping people out with this problem - they
have some kind of stripper/converter there. I don't know the specifics
of Markus' case, but it seems unusually unhelpful of them. I haven't
dealt with the European arm of the operation, only the Florida-based
US distrib - if that makes any difference.

> Bad-mouth Open Source if you will,

I did exactly the opposite, if you'd care to read my post again. It
is /always/ my policy to use open-source software wherever possible,
for a variety of reasons - mostly the need to be able to access my
data again in ten years' time.

> but this crap doesn't happen in that realm.

Unfortunately, in this particular space there is no viable open source
product.

On May 13, 10:51 pm, JeffM <jef...@email.com> wrote:


> >I read a lot about this in the Cadsoft newsgroups - and it's pretty clear
> >that the vast majority of people there were using cracked copies.
>
> Evades the point.

By the way, speaking of evading the point - I notice you handily
snipped my summary of the alternatives. No matter how evil this
particular case might be, it still appears to me to be the least of
four evils.

NoJo wrote:
> I'm starting up a PCB projects with some engineer colleagues -- some
> signal sources that we've had cobbled up in the lab for a while. We
> don't have any project funding yet, and are currently doing our proof-
> of-concept work prior to looking for some funding.
> 
> Understandably, we can't use the PCB tools provided by our respective
> employers (conflict of interest and all), and given that even an
> affordadable design tool costs as much as a good used car, we're
> looking for some pointers on shareware or really-low-cost tools.
> 
> Which ones have you found to be effective? Which design tools have you
> found to be capable of real commercial projects? Which ones should I
> steer away from?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help!
> 
Kicad (open source)