We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using a PCI Express based WiFi card. Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, design tools, Developer's Kits� nothing. Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like that, or am I missing something here. Steve
Is PCI Express not for embedded designs??
Started by ●September 11, 2007
Reply by ●September 11, 20072007-09-11
On Sep 11, 7:05 pm, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote:> a PCI Express based WiFi card.Even Cardbus was a stretch; XpressCard is, in the quest for higher performance, a vastly more complex interface designed to be implemented by an ASSP. The PC is fast becoming a closed architecture anyway; for how many cards do you think you'll find detailed technical information readily available?
Reply by ●September 11, 20072007-09-11
Steve M wrote:> We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > design tools, Developer's Kits� nothing. > > Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > that, or am I missing something here.I'm not quite sure what you're expecting to find... adding a micro to the back end of a PCI/(e) bridge won't involve or require any 'libraries' or 'design tools' pertinent to PCI/(e)... You need to find a PCIe bridge chipset like PEX8311 that provides a local bus interface to which you can glue an embedded micro. From there you'll be twiddling memory/registers in the bridge to talk PCIe... Regards, -- Mark McDougall, Engineer Virtual Logic Pty Ltd, <http://www.vl.com.au> 21-25 King St, Rockdale, 2216 Ph: +612-9599-3255 Fax: +612-9599-3266
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
> We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > design tools, Developer's Kits... nothing.Their only part to have PCIe is the 8641, and they don't seem very close to its finishing - but it may be a monster in the context anyway, you are probably after something smaller.> Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > that, or am I missing something here.To reiterate on one of Lewins points, being able to buy a wifi card - be it PCIe or whatever - does not mean you can use it, unless you run MS windows. I spent some time searching and there is just nothing on the market one could use without writing his own wifi firmware for one of the few wifi chip(sets), and your options will be limited to those chips which are documented, which is valid for some older ones only. I suspect this will be the real hurdle, not interfacing a PCIe card - bridging PCI to PCIe somehow should be doable (??? unless the silicon for that is also party members only area, of course). Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ On Sep 12, 2:05 am, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote:> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card > for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need > to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using > a PCI Express based WiFi card. > > Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any > starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. > > We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > design tools, Developer's Kits... nothing. > > Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > that, or am I missing something here. > > Steve
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
On Sep 12, 1:05 am, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote:> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card > for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need > to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using > a PCI Express based WiFi card. > > Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any > starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. > > We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > design tools, Developer's Kits... nothing. > > Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > that, or am I missing something here. > > SteveAltera and Xilinx have built-in support in their FPGAs for PCI Express. I'm less familiar with Xilinx, but Altera actually has even the PHY of PCIe built into their GX series FPGAs (including the new low cost Arria GX). They also have a development kit for it, demo designs and an evaluation board. On the cheaper side, you can look for dedicated PCIe interface chips that connect to a uC in some parallel way. Eli
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
Steve M wrote:> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card > for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need > to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using > a PCI Express based WiFi card. >=20 > Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any > starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. >=20 > We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > design tools, Developer's Kits=85 nothing. >=20 > Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > that, or am I missing something here.Yes, there are plenty of ethernet chips available that can be glued to a controller without the need for a PCI interface. Rene --=20 Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com & commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:31:16 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar <none@none.net> wrote:>Steve M wrote: > >> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card >> for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need >> to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using >> a PCI Express based WiFi card. >> >> Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any >> starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. >> >> We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, >> design tools, Developer's Kits� nothing. >> >> Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems >> that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like >> that, or am I missing something here. > >Yes, there are plenty of ethernet chips available >that can be glued to a controller without the need >for a PCI interface. > >ReneYes, we thought about this way back when we first developed this device in the 1990's The main reason for going with a PCMCIA slot was up-gradability. This has extend the life of the product going from wired Ethernet to 802.11b, a,g... Cost wise it's very easy to do a in-field update when all you need to do is pull a card and update the firmware. Using "off-the-shelve" hardware made maintenance easy. Most often, the only thing that would fail was the Ethernet Adapter and the end user could pick one up a the local EStore and fix it themselves. Sounds to me like those days are gone forever...such is progress.
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:32:11 -0700, larwe <zwsdotcom@gmail.com> wrote:>On Sep 11, 7:05 pm, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote: > >> a PCI Express based WiFi card. > >Even Cardbus was a stretch; XpressCard is, in the quest for higher >performance, a vastly more complex interface designed to be >implemented by an ASSP. > >The PC is fast becoming a closed architecture anyway; for how many >cards do you think you'll find detailed technical information readily >available?I don't expect to see the detailed information like Lucent used to publish (for free) in the good old days. I'm thinking that it will have to go as part of an Open Source Project and be released using the available drivers in most part from the Linux groups. I see they already have drivers for most all of the WiFi cards using PCIe. Steve
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
> The main reason for going with a PCMCIA slot was up-gradability. > This has extend the life of the product going from wired Ethernet to > 802.11b, a,g...But if you do have the 802.11 knowhow you may be able to use one of the many USB based bridges? Perhaps at least some of them would be some device you are familiar with from the PCMCIA days, accessed over USB? Have you managed to use an off the shelf wifi adaptor (PCMCIA or whatever)? If you have, I would be very interested about some details (even if they are publically available, I still don't know where to look, although I once spent a few hours of searching). Dimiter ------------------------------------------------------ Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments http://www.tgi-sci.com ------------------------------------------------------ On Sep 12, 7:29 pm, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote:> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:31:16 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar <n...@none.net> > wrote: > > > > >Steve M wrote: > > >> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card > >> for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need > >> to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using > >> a PCI Express based WiFi card. > > >> Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any > >> starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. > > >> We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, > >> design tools, Developer's Kits... nothing. > > >> Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems > >> that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like > >> that, or am I missing something here. > > >Yes, there are plenty of ethernet chips available > >that can be glued to a controller without the need > >for a PCI interface. > > >Rene > > Yes, we thought about this way back when we first developed this > device in the 1990's > > The main reason for going with a PCMCIA slot was up-gradability. > This has extend the life of the product going from wired Ethernet to > 802.11b, a,g... > Cost wise it's very easy to do a in-field update when all you need to > do is pull a card and update the firmware. > Using "off-the-shelve" hardware made maintenance easy. > Most often, the only thing that would fail was the Ethernet Adapter > and the end user could pick one up a the local EStore and fix it > themselves. > > Sounds to me like those days are gone forever...such is progress.
Reply by ●September 12, 20072007-09-12
On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:45:13 -0700, Didi <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:>> The main reason for going with a PCMCIA slot was up-gradability. >> This has extend the life of the product going from wired Ethernet to >> 802.11b, a,g... > >But if you do have the 802.11 knowhow you may be able to use one of >the many USB based bridges? Perhaps at least some of them would be >some device you are familiar with from the PCMCIA days, accessed over >USB? > Have you managed to use an off the shelf wifi adaptor (PCMCIA or >whatever)? If you have, I would be very interested about some details >(even if they are publically available, I still don't know where to >look, although I once spent a few hours of searching). > >Dimiter > >------------------------------------------------------ >Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments > >http://www.tgi-sci.com >------------------------------------------------------ > >On Sep 12, 7:29 pm, Steve M <i@dont_use_email.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:31:16 +0200, Rene Tschaggelar <n...@none.net> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Steve M wrote: >> >> >> We build a small embedded device that is using a 16-Bit PCMCIA card >> >> for an Ethernet adapter. This was fine 10 years ago, but now we need >> >> to upgrade the processor/adapter and are thinking about possibly using >> >> a PCI Express based WiFi card. >> >> >> Looking through this newsgroup and Googling the web, I don't see any >> >> starting points for using an embedded micro with a single PCIe card. >> >> >> We searched out Freescale's website and no mention of libraries, >> >> design tools, Developer's Kits... nothing. >> >> >> Is the point being made that PCIe is not for "simple" embedded systems >> >> that use only one card and don't need hot-swapping or anything like >> >> that, or am I missing something here. >> >> >Yes, there are plenty of ethernet chips available >> >that can be glued to a controller without the need >> >for a PCI interface. >> >> >Rene >> >> Yes, we thought about this way back when we first developed this >> device in the 1990's >> >> The main reason for going with a PCMCIA slot was up-gradability. >> This has extend the life of the product going from wired Ethernet to >> 802.11b, a,g... >> Cost wise it's very easy to do a in-field update when all you need to >> do is pull a card and update the firmware. >> Using "off-the-shelve" hardware made maintenance easy. >> Most often, the only thing that would fail was the Ethernet Adapter >> and the end user could pick one up a the local EStore and fix it >> themselves. >> >> Sounds to me like those days are gone forever...such is progress. >
