On Jun 10, 4:27 pm, Eric Smith <e...@brouhaha.com> wrote:> I'd never heard that Moore had any such intention, but certainly > almost all ordinary FORTH systems fail at that, in that they > produce threaded interpretive code, not native code.Up until about 1980 Chuck Moore used threaded interpreted code incrementally compiled. Since then he has only done native code compilers. Perhaps by 'ordinary' you mean hobbiest, toy, and antique instead of professional. His stated intention since 80 has been to use simpler software to create hardware for a simpler-yet combination of hardware and software. Systems like 2GByte Pentium PC are very resource constrained when it comes to difficult problems so he has used native code compiler Forth for demanding applications like VLSI CAD. The CAD system is used to create new chips that are designed to be very resource constrained and more typical of embedded targets than desktop PC. Best Wishes
ideas for a BASIC compiler
Started by ●June 1, 2008
Reply by ●June 11, 20082008-06-11
Reply by ●June 11, 20082008-06-11
Chris H wrote:> In message <slrng501ni.iug.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ > Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> writes > >> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 09:30:35 GMT, Stephen Pelc >> <stephenXXX@mpeforth.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2008 21:42:21 -0500, AZ Nomad >>> <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote: >>> >>>> While forth was popular in the 80's on micros, I don't >>>> know of anybody or any organization that used compilation. It was >>>> always >>>> too much trouble. >> >> >>> So 20+ years ago represents current practice? Now haul out >>> your 20 year old C compiler. >> >> >> A 20 year old C compiler is a huge improvement over FORTH. The resource >> limitations that made FORTH a good choice twenty years ago simply don't >> exist any more. > > > Just as well no one uses an 8051 any more then isn't it?yes, and that 4 bit Micro sales are Zero, and no one adds new 4 bit Micro varriant.... (or builds 2K code 80C51's....) ;) Everything these days is Java on 32bit CPUs, surely ? -jg
Reply by ●June 11, 20082008-06-11
Jim Granville wrote:> >Chris H wrote: >> >>AZ Nomad writes >> >>> A 20 year old C compiler is a huge improvement over FORTH. The resource >>> limitations that made FORTH a good choice twenty years ago simply don't >>> exist any more.??>> Just as well no one uses an 8051 any more then isn't it? > >yes, and that 4 bit Micro sales are Zero, and no one adds new 4 bit >Micro varriant.... (or builds 2K code 80C51's....) ;) > >Everything these days is Java on 32bit CPUs, surely ?Free Clues for "AZ Nomad": http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/database/Data_Sheet/PE/EM73361A.pdf http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/winbond_products/pdfs/4-bit/W541C20X.pdf http://www.sunplusit.com/download/english/mc65p2104_2102av11.pdf http://www.holtek.com.tw/pdf/uc/48x050608_1v150.pdf I hope this helps... -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
Reply by ●June 11, 20082008-06-11
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 21:41:40 +0000, Guy Macon <http> wrote:>Jim Granville wrote: >> >>Chris H wrote: >>> >>>AZ Nomad writes >>> >>>> A 20 year old C compiler is a huge improvement over FORTH. The resource >>>> limitations that made FORTH a good choice twenty years ago simply don't >>>> exist any more. >?? >>> Just as well no one uses an 8051 any more then isn't it? >> >>yes, and that 4 bit Micro sales are Zero, and no one adds new 4 bit >>Micro varriant.... (or builds 2K code 80C51's....) ;) >> >>Everything these days is Java on 32bit CPUs, surely ?>Free Clues for "AZ Nomad":>http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/database/Data_Sheet/PE/EM73361A.pdf >http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/winbond_products/pdfs/4-bit/W541C20X.pdf >http://www.sunplusit.com/download/english/mc65p2104_2102av11.pdf >http://www.holtek.com.tw/pdf/uc/48x050608_1v150.pdf>I hope this helps...You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the locale of yoru cave?
Reply by ●June 11, 20082008-06-11
AZ Nomad wrote:> Guy Macon <http> wrote: >> Jim Granville wrote: >>... snip ...>> >>> yes, and that 4 bit Micro sales are Zero, and no one adds new >>> 4 bit Micro varriant.... (or builds 2K code 80C51's....) ;) >>> >>> Everything these days is Java on 32bit CPUs, surely ? > >> Free Clues for "AZ Nomad": >> >> http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/database/Data_Sheet/PE/EM73361A.pdf >> http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/winbond_products/pdfs/4-bit/W541C20X.pdf >> http://www.sunplusit.com/download/english/mc65p2104_2102av11.pdf >> http://www.holtek.com.tw/pdf/uc/48x050608_1v150.pdf >> >> I hope this helps... > > You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? > > News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the > locale of yoru cave?Well Guy, why don't you fill the poor ignoramus in on the unit cost of your cheaper embedded systems? Give him a touch of reality, even enlightenment. -- [mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net) [page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> Try the download section. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Reply by ●June 12, 20082008-06-12
CBFalconer wrote:> >AZ Nomad wrote: > >> Guy Macon <http> wrote: > >>> Jim Granville wrote: >>> >... snip ... >>> >>>> yes, and that 4 bit Micro sales are Zero, and no one adds new >>>> 4 bit Micro varriant.... (or builds 2K code 80C51's....) ;) >>>> >>>> Everything these days is Java on 32bit CPUs, surely ? >> >>> Free Clues for "AZ Nomad": >>> >>> http://www.emc.com.tw/eng/database/Data_Sheet/PE/EM73361A.pdf >>> http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/winbond_products/pdfs/4-bit/W541C20X.pdf >>> http://www.sunplusit.com/download/english/mc65p2104_2102av11.pdf >>> http://www.holtek.com.tw/pdf/uc/48x050608_1v150.pdf >>> >>> I hope this helps... >> >> You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? >> >> News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the >> locale of yoru cave? > >Well Guy, why don't you fill the poor ignoramus in on the unit cost >of your cheaper embedded systems? Give him a touch of reality, >even enlightenment.Well under 10 cents total for all the electronics; micro, support electronics, and PWB. Another few cents for a speaker, switches and baterry holders molded into the body with stamped metal contacts. 5 to 15 cents total compared to the same product with no electronics in it. One cent of cost reduction equals $1000.00/hour and 24,000.00/day in pure profit. One day late goin into production equals well over a million dollars in lost sales -- Christmas doesn't come later just because my microcontoller had a bug in it and I had to go for another run of masked ROMs. Another Free Clues for "AZ Nomad": read the name of the newsgroup... -- Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/>
Reply by ●June 12, 20082008-06-12
In message <slrng50pf2.ef9.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> writes>You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? >News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the locale >of yoru cave?Several 8 bit systems. Also my PC has several 8 bit systems in it.... added to which there are more embedded systems around the world than PC's by several orders of magnitude and about 30% of them are 8 bit systems -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●June 12, 20082008-06-12
In message <9uup9eA87MUIFAug@phaedsys.demon.co.uk>, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> writes>In message <slrng50pf2.ef9.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, >AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> writes >>You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? >>News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the locale >>of yoru cave? > > >Several 8 bit systems. Also my PC has several 8 bit systems in it.... >added to which there are more embedded systems around the world than >PC's by several orders of magnitude and about 30% of them are 8 bit >systemsActually I think 305 were (in 2004) 8051's the X86 market was around 5%? -- \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Reply by ●June 12, 20082008-06-12
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:23:40 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote:>In message <slrng50pf2.ef9.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ >Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> writes >>You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? >>News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the locale >>of yoru cave?>Several 8 bit systems. Also my PC has several 8 bit systems in it.... >added to which there are more embedded systems around the world than >PC's by several orders of magnitude and about 30% of them are 8 bit >systemsWow! You must the last person on earth using an 8 bit system for their desktop. Why the fuck don't you get a job so you can afford $10 to buy a used 486? Then you'd be able to run a compiler for a user friendly programming language and do some target compilation.
Reply by ●June 12, 20082008-06-12
In comp.arch.embedded, AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:> On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:23:40 +0100, Chris H <chris@phaedsys.org> wrote: >>In message <slrng50pf2.ef9.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>, AZ >>Nomad <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> writes >>>You still run an 8 bit micro on your desktop? >>>News of the technology of target compilation never made it to the locale >>>of yoru cave? > > >>Several 8 bit systems. Also my PC has several 8 bit systems in it.... >>added to which there are more embedded systems around the world than >>PC's by several orders of magnitude and about 30% of them are 8 bit >>systems > > Wow! You must the last person on earth using an 8 bit system for > their desktop.<snip, some un-called for language> Please re-read Chris's reply, especially the words "in it". Hint: there's more than one processor in your PC. -- Stef (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail) "Congratulations. You're the first human to fail the turing test."
