MSP430 and free tools

Hi all,

Spin time... I've tested out enough of my sub electronics to be able to
start optimizing. I'm contemplating the MSP430F149 or F135 as a
candidate to replace a few 8-bit micros [that are currently way
under-utilized anyway]. This is a dual-purpose project; saving power and
also learning the MSP430 as I will be using it extensively in the coming
years at work.

However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
know if there is any known flakiness.

What's mspgcc like? I know about IAR Kickstart, but 2K isn't enough, and
anyway, where I work we're also in the process of ditching all IAR tools
(including their MSP430 toolchain) due to bugs, poor support and crazy
pricing.

Also, how reliable is the whole gcc toolchain running under Linux? (I'm
thinking in particular the JTAG flashing here).


-- 
 -- Lewin A.R.W. Edwards (http://www.zws.com/)
Learn how to develop high-end embedded systems on a tight budget!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750676094/zws-20

"Lewin Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:1YzSc.21954$Jp6.18636@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Hi all,
>
> Spin time... I've tested out enough of my sub electronics to be able to
> start optimizing. I'm contemplating the MSP430F149 or F135 as a
> candidate to replace a few 8-bit micros [that are currently way
> under-utilized anyway]. This is a dual-purpose project; saving power and
> also learning the MSP430 as I will be using it extensively in the coming
> years at work.
>
> However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
> preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
> comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
> so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
> know if there is any known flakiness.

The Olimex hardware is very good value, and doesn't have any problems.

>
> What's mspgcc like? I know about IAR Kickstart, but 2K isn't enough, and
> anyway, where I work we're also in the process of ditching all IAR tools
> (including their MSP430 toolchain) due to bugs, poor support and crazy
> pricing.

mspgcc works very well.

>
> Also, how reliable is the whole gcc toolchain running under Linux? (I'm
> thinking in particular the JTAG flashing here).

Join the MSP430 Yahoo group. There is also an mspgcc users group on
SourceForge.

Leon

Hi Leon,

Hey, I didn't know you were an MSP guy as well. I thought about an
LPC2000 series part for this app, BTW, but decided they're just not
mainstream enough yet (meaning, expensive and purchasing is much more
difficult than for MSP).

I'll look on Yahoo, thanks.

-- 
 -- Lewin A.R.W. Edwards (http://www.zws.com/)
Learn how to develop high-end embedded systems on a tight budget!
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750676094/zws-20

Lewin Edwards wrote:

> saving power and
> also learning the MSP430 as I will be using it extensively in the coming
> years at work.
> 

You won't be disappointed on either count- it's both frugal and 
versatile. It's been my standard choice for 3 years now. The only things 
I would like added are an option of external data/control bus and 5V 
compatible IO. And someone to make 0603 6 meg crystals.

> However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
> preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
> comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
> so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
> know if there is any known flakiness.

There's a homebrew JTAG interface pointed to somewhere on the MSPGCC 
site. I don't to use it- the serial downloader has always suited my 
style better. It acts as a debug serial interface as well. At least in 
the earlier days, the JTAG debugger/GDB/Cygwin combo caused all sorts of 
problems.

> 
> What's mspgcc like? 

Very good except for floating point, plus one or two idiosyncracies, 
like printf() ALWAYS needing at least two parameters. Very well 
supported by an excellent and responsive team, actively improving all 
the time. Use it with confidence.

Paul Burke

"Lewin Edwards" <larwe@larwe.com> wrote in message
news:8AASc.13695$nx2.6806@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Hi Leon,
>
> Hey, I didn't know you were an MSP guy as well. I thought about an
> LPC2000 series part for this app, BTW, but decided they're just not
> mainstream enough yet (meaning, expensive and purchasing is much more
> difficult than for MSP).

Lots of people who liked the MSP430 have been attracted to the LPC2000
parts.

Leon

Hey Lewin,
    How's tricks?
> However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
> preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
> comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
> so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
> know if there is any known flakiness.
>
The Olimex F149 header boards are pretty good.  I've designed boards with a
dual pad-out to take either the processor or the Olimex breadboard.  Down
here in Australia, the boards had a shorter lead time!!!

> What's mspgcc like? I know about IAR Kickstart, but 2K isn't enough, and
> anyway, where I work we're also in the process of ditching all IAR tools
> (including their MSP430 toolchain) due to bugs, poor support and crazy
> pricing.

I use the ridiculously priced full IAR compiler (a rip-off at AU$4000 odd).
Imagecraft have one at about a tenth that price that seems to be pretty
robust, I used the demo for a while.  It's not as efficient time and memory
footprint wise as the IAR compiler, but I've heard that both of them are
streets (20%-30%) ahead of mspgcc.  This may be old information though.

Cheers,
Alf

alfkatz@remove.the.obvious.ieee.org

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:44:29 GMT, Lewin Edwards <larwe@larwe.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>Spin time... I've tested out enough of my sub electronics to be able to
>start optimizing. I'm contemplating the MSP430F149 or F135 as a
>candidate to replace a few 8-bit micros [that are currently way
>under-utilized anyway]. This is a dual-purpose project; saving power and
>also learning the MSP430 as I will be using it extensively in the coming
>years at work.
>
>However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
>preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
>comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
>so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
>know if there is any known flakiness.
>
>What's mspgcc like? I know about IAR Kickstart, but 2K isn't enough, and
>anyway, where I work we're also in the process of ditching all IAR tools
>(including their MSP430 toolchain) due to bugs, poor support and crazy
>pricing.
>
>Also, how reliable is the whole gcc toolchain running under Linux? (I'm
>thinking in particular the JTAG flashing here).

Talk to the people in the Yahoo MSP430 group. The people who create
the compilers are regulars so you should be able to obtain some answers.

Apparently the Crossworks compiler from http://www.rowley.co.uk/ works
very well, you can port from IAR fairly easily, and is significantly cheaper.

He's even got a Linux version of Crossworks 1.2 (Beta 1 version).

Crossworks UKP 495. per user.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:11:11 +1000, "Unbeliever" <alfkatz@remove.the.bleedin.obvious.ieee.org>
wrote:
>>
>The Olimex F149 header boards are pretty good.  I've designed boards with a
>dual pad-out to take either the processor or the Olimex breadboard.  Down
>here in Australia, the boards had a shorter lead time!!!


Alf,

Do you get the Olimex boards locally (Melb), or are they shipped from Bulgaria ?

regards
David

"Unbeliever" <alfkatz@remove.the.bleedin.obvious.ieee.org> wrote in message
news:411b342e$0$16107$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hey Lewin,
>     How's tricks?
> > However, at home I would like to work with "free" tools; mspgcc and
> > preferably a homebrew or low-cost JTAG dongle like Olimex's. Any
> > comments on the Olimex wiggler? How about their F149 breadboard? They're
> > so cheap that I've ordered one of each to play with, but I'd like to
> > know if there is any known flakiness.
> >
> The Olimex F149 header boards are pretty good.  I've designed boards with
a
> dual pad-out to take either the processor or the Olimex breadboard.  Down
> here in Australia, the boards had a shorter lead time!!!
>
> > What's mspgcc like? I know about IAR Kickstart, but 2K isn't enough, and
> > anyway, where I work we're also in the process of ditching all IAR tools
> > (including their MSP430 toolchain) due to bugs, poor support and crazy
> > pricing.
>
> I use the ridiculously priced full IAR compiler (a rip-off at AU$4000
odd).
> Imagecraft have one at about a tenth that price that seems to be pretty
> robust, I used the demo for a while.  It's not as efficient time and
memory
> footprint wise as the IAR compiler, but I've heard that both of them are
> streets (20%-30%) ahead of mspgcc.  This may be old information though.

There are also the Rowley CrossWorks tools. They are very good value
compared to IAR and work very well.

Leon

"dmm" <dmmilne_removethis_@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:5idmh09bvla2c4h2jvdij35ndfr77f7jhk@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:11:11 +1000, "Unbeliever"
<alfkatz@remove.the.bleedin.obvious.ieee.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >The Olimex F149 header boards are pretty good.  I've designed boards with
a
> >dual pad-out to take either the processor or the Olimex breadboard.  Down
> >here in Australia, the boards had a shorter lead time!!!
>
>
> Alf,
>
> Do you get the Olimex boards locally (Melb), or are they shipped from
Bulgaria ?
>
> regards
> David
>
I ordered them from Bulgaria and paid with my credit card.  No hassles and
about 10 days from memory.  YMMV.

Cheers,
Alf