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Hi, The new 68HC711 mask 4K81H exhibits programming problems on our equipment, which seem similar to the problems with the 2H50W mask. I know a solution has been found for that 2H50W mask, but I am unable to find it. Can someone repost that solution (resistor in XIRQ ??) so I can try if that also solves the problems with the 4K81H mask ??? Thanks, Jaap. |
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4K81H mask won't program
Started by ●February 14, 2003
Reply by ●February 14, 20032003-02-14
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Jaap Liefting wrote: > The new 68HC711 mask 4K81H exhibits programming problems on our equipment, > which seem similar to the problems with the 2H50W mask. That's bad... > I know a solution has been found for that 2H50W mask, but I am unable > to find it. Already tried the archive? > Can someone repost that solution (resistor in XIRQ ??) so I can > try if that also solves the problems with the 4K81H mask ??? Limit the current (e.g. to 10mA) and maybe the rise time of Vpp. Although Motorola does, I don't suggest to use a 1k resistor since this would violate the Vpp spec. Oliver -- Oliver Betz, Muenchen |
Reply by ●February 14, 20032003-02-14
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Jaap -- Ahhh, a subject dear to my heart. I have a lengthy archive of email on this topic. I paste below, one of the better summaries on the subject. After all the dust had settled, I recall that the real _required_ change was to add a 0.1uF bypass from the XIRQ/Vpp pin to ground. The original recommendation to change the Vpp supply series resistor from 100 Ohm to 1000 Ohm works on most chips but may cause excessive Vpp drop for some older chips, notably the 711E20 parts. I think the final recommendation is to use 100 Ohm for all parts AS LONG AS THE 0.1uF BYPASS IS THERE. I have a lot more on this topic. If you continue to have problems, please email me. Best Wishes, Bob Smith ***************** Old email ************************************** Walter -- It sounds like you are dusting off an old problem here. There was a very long exchange of email regarding programming problems with the new H50W mask set. See below. Eventually, one of the Motorola factory engineers got involved and helped us solve it. I suggest that you contact your FAE and see if he can get you some inside help. If you are looking for a debugger/programming tool I suggest Jbug11 instead of PCBUG11. PCBUG11 has a number of unresolved problems, especially that it fails on fast PCs. See http://freespace.virgin.net/john.beatty/index.html Thank you, Bob Smith --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Suchyta" <> To: <> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2001 9:57 AM Subject: RE: Programming 711E9 & PCBug11 > Message sent by "John Suchyta" <> > to the 68hc11 Mailing List. > > All, the latest mask set for the HC711E9, H50W, appears to be sensitive to > VPP transients. This is a shrink of the older C47M mask. We have added a > note to the databook (rev 3.2 is latest) that recommends a 1K resistor on > VPP for the 711E9. > > Some info that may pertain to various situations: > We have been able to damage the XIRQ/VPP pin by cycling the VPP supply while > VDD=5V without an effective current limit on VPP. > > On parts that have been damaged, the XIRQ protection diode is shorted to > ground. The part can still operate, but in all cases that we have seen the > device was not completely programmed, so it would fail a verify step during > programming. > > The programming voltage is not that critical. A 12.0V supply fed to the VPP > pin through a 1K resistor appears to work in all instances with a nominal 5V > supply on VDD. > > The VPP supply can (and maybe should) remain on the VPP pin throughout the > EPROM programming step. Bob Smith's circuit to prevent application of VPP > without 5V on VDD is a good practice, even for other programmable devices. > Toggling VPP between bytes is not necessary since the ELAT bit is used to > control this internally. > > The 711E20 still needs a 100 ohm resistor - a 1K resistor dropped > programming voltage too much. The latest databook rev on the web states > this. > Hope this info helps. > > John Suchyta > MCU Applications Engineering > --- Avoid computer viruses, Practice safe hex --- -- Specializing in small, cost effective embedded control systems -- Robert L. (Bob) Smith Smith Machine Works, Inc. 9900 Lumlay Road Richmond, VA 23236 804/745-1065 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaap Liefting, Leiderdorp Instruments" <> To: <> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 5:52 AM Subject: [m68HC11] 4K81H mask won't program > Hi, > > The new 68HC711 mask 4K81H exhibits programming problems on our equipment, > which seem similar to the problems with the 2H50W mask. > > I know a solution has been found for that 2H50W mask, but I am unable > to find it. Can someone repost that solution (resistor in XIRQ ??) so I can > try if that also solves the problems with the 4K81H mask ??? > Thanks, > Jaap. > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > > ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > |
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Reply by ●February 17, 20032003-02-17
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Bob
This is the situation: I have an S4 prom programmer with an adapter socket to accept 68HC711's I programmed loads of C47M mask chips, programming them as if they were SGS 27C256B devices, no failures. H50W sets nearly all failed. I scrapped a few tubes :-(( and managed to order C47M masks until now. However, these are now out of stock. I now have a batch of K81H mask chips, and the ones I tried all fail. I tried the suggested 100 Ohm and 100n on the XIRQ pin. Also 1kOhm and 100n on the XIRQ pin. I still can't get the devices correctly programmed. Strange thing is that I cannot even read the contents of an otherwise blank (fresh from the tube) device. That is to say, the result is all $80's on all locations.... Which is also what I get after I tried to program. They are M68HC711CFN2 chips. Can you shed any light on this ? Jaap. At 10:10 14-02-2003 -0500, you wrote: >Jaap -- > >Ahhh, a subject dear to my heart. I have a lengthy archive of email on >this topic. I paste below, one of the better summaries on the subject. > >After all the dust had settled, I recall that the real _required_ change was >to add a 0.1uF bypass from the XIRQ/Vpp pin to ground. The original >recommendation to change the Vpp supply series resistor from 100 Ohm to 1000 >Ohm works on most chips but may cause excessive Vpp drop for some older >chips, notably the 711E20 parts. I think the final recommendation is to use > > 100 Ohm for all parts AS LONG AS THE 0.1uF BYPASS IS THERE. > >I have a lot more on this topic. If you continue to have problems, please >email me. > > Best Wishes, Bob Smith |
Reply by ●February 17, 20032003-02-17
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Bob, Additional news: I tried to program a chip with 00's in the first few bytes and $80's in all the others that actually worked. This suggests that I got a few tubes of chips that are filled with $80's. Or that otherwise bits 6..0 cannot be read back (but will show 0) I can hardly believe motorola sends out devices that are not blank, but maybe the problems do not originate from the programming equipment at all. Jaap. At 10:10 14-02-2003 -0500, you wrote: >Jaap -- > >Ahhh, a subject dear to my heart. I have a lengthy archive of email on >this topic. I paste below, one of the better summaries on the subject. |
Reply by ●February 17, 20032003-02-17
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Didn't someone mention (or maybe I read it someplace, can't
remember) that newer HC11 parts don't work in parallel programming mode anymore? Not sure about this, however. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jaap" <> To: < > Bob, > > Additional news: I tried to program a chip with 00's in the first few bytes > and $80's in all the others that actually worked. This suggests that I got > a few tubes of chips that are filled with $80's. Or that otherwise bits > 6..0 cannot be read back (but will show 0) > I can hardly believe motorola sends out devices that are not blank, but > maybe the problems do not originate from the programming equipment at all. > > Jaap. |
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Reply by ●February 18, 20032003-02-18
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Tony, This may very well be the case. I programmed a few devices in the serial mode with the suggested 100Ohm and 100n in/on VPP and that worked out fine. Unfortunately serial programming takes a lot more time. Our distributor now tries to find out why the parallel mode has these problems. Jaap. At 22:16 17-02-2003 +0200, you wrote: >Didn't someone mention (or maybe I read it someplace, can't remember) that >newer HC11 parts don't work in parallel programming mode anymore? Not sure >about this, however. |
Reply by ●February 24, 20032003-02-24
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Hi, After some more experiments we found the following: There are definitely differences between the K81 mask and other masks, regarding read-out of the EPROM in the parallel mode. More specific, our programmer is unable to read the contents of the EPROM in parallel mode, although it reads other masks just fine. As a consequence, programming 4K81H masks fails. Motorola has no additional info on the subject. So be advised when you use the 4K81H mask that parallel programming may be out of the question. Jaap. |
Reply by ●February 24, 20032003-02-24
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In a message dated 2/24/03 8:25:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: > So be advised when you use the 4K81H mask that parallel programming may be > out of the question. I bet someone has a bootable program that will burn eeprom. I've got all the bits and pieces... What speed xtal? |
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Reply by ●February 25, 20032003-02-25
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Bob, Thanks for your offer. Fortunately I already have a PC program and proper bootcode that I can use to program the device in serial mode. However, parallel mode is much quicker, so I prefer to do it that way since I mostly have to program more than a few chips. At 09:08 24-02-2003 -0500, you wrote: >In a message dated 2/24/03 8:25:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, > writes: > > > So be advised when you use the 4K81H mask that parallel programming may be > > out of the question. > > > > > >I bet someone has a bootable program that will burn eeprom. I've got all the >bits and pieces... What speed xtal? |
