----- Original Message -----
From: "bobtransformer"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:00 PM
Subject: [lpc2000] Re: Anyone use Imagecraft ICC or Rowley CrossWorks?
> --- In l..., "stevech11" wrote:
>>
>> when someone posts an absurd comment as is the "it's crap" posting, I
>> think that most of us just ignore the comment as being made by a dolt.
>
> You obviously have never had to use Cypress' PSoC developer and this
> particular compiler.
When I used it once it worked OK, but I was using assembler.
Leon
--
Leon Heller
Amateur radio call-sign G1HSM
Yaesu FT-817ND transceiver
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
l...@btinternet.com
http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/
Anyone use Imagecraft ICC or Rowley CrossWorks?
Started by ●August 20, 2008
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
--- In l..., "J.C. Wren" wrote:
>
> Unless you're talking about Hyperterm. Then are no words that can
be
> combined to adequately describe it's crappiness.
And the 'pay for it' Personal Edition is only marginally better.
Never underestimate the ability of Hyperterminal to embarrass you.
So, what I really need is the functionality that Hyperterminal should
have and the ability to transfer text files. Nothing fancy. I have
tried TeraTerm and RealTerm but they just don't get it for my
application. Among other things, I need 132 column display (by I
don't care how many lines).
One other thing: the package needs to pay attention to hardware flow
control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
when the flow control had the port turned off.
I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
Richard
>
> Unless you're talking about Hyperterm. Then are no words that can
be
> combined to adequately describe it's crappiness.
And the 'pay for it' Personal Edition is only marginally better.
Never underestimate the ability of Hyperterminal to embarrass you.
So, what I really need is the functionality that Hyperterminal should
have and the ability to transfer text files. Nothing fancy. I have
tried TeraTerm and RealTerm but they just don't get it for my
application. Among other things, I need 132 column display (by I
don't care how many lines).
One other thing: the package needs to pay attention to hardware flow
control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
when the flow control had the port turned off.
I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
Richard
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
Actually, a lot of our customers are the 5-6 seats for a mid-sized
company type. The cost adds up fast.
The other segment is the non-US engineers where the pricing is also
more a concern.
At 08:41 PM 8/21/2008, s...@san.rr.com wrote:
>"I'm evaluating cheap compilers..."
>
>Certainly understandable for hobbyist or students. Or is it? IAR
>allows 32KB of code in the free version. Keil, 16KB. Rowley's GCC
>flavor: low cost if you sign a not-for-profit promise. Sufficient
>for most such projects?
>
>For professional endeavors, if your company pays you US$75-150K and
>expects high productivity and won't pay for a $3500 tool, then maybe
>you need a different employer!
// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly,
please use richard at imagecraft.com)
company type. The cost adds up fast.
The other segment is the non-US engineers where the pricing is also
more a concern.
At 08:41 PM 8/21/2008, s...@san.rr.com wrote:
>"I'm evaluating cheap compilers..."
>
>Certainly understandable for hobbyist or students. Or is it? IAR
>allows 32KB of code in the free version. Keil, 16KB. Rowley's GCC
>flavor: low cost if you sign a not-for-profit promise. Sufficient
>for most such projects?
>
>For professional endeavors, if your company pays you US$75-150K and
>expects high productivity and won't pay for a $3500 tool, then maybe
>you need a different employer!
// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly,
please use richard at imagecraft.com)
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
--- In l..., "rtstofer" wrote:
>
> So, what I really need is the functionality that Hyperterminal should
> have and the ability to transfer text files. Nothing fancy. I have
> tried TeraTerm and RealTerm but they just don't get it for my
> application. Among other things, I need 132 column display (by I
> don't care how many lines).
>
> One other thing: the package needs to pay attention to hardware flow
> control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
> confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
> when the flow control had the port turned off.
>
> I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
>
> Richard
I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can get the
source (which after I dug into the "product" further I found I didn't
need). I think the flow control issue is either hardware or windows
based (the FIFO) because you can't rely on XOFF to halt PC data
instantly as far as I've seen. TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's
hiding of control characters.
>
> So, what I really need is the functionality that Hyperterminal should
> have and the ability to transfer text files. Nothing fancy. I have
> tried TeraTerm and RealTerm but they just don't get it for my
> application. Among other things, I need 132 column display (by I
> don't care how many lines).
>
> One other thing: the package needs to pay attention to hardware flow
> control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
> confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
> when the flow control had the port turned off.
>
> I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
>
> Richard
I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can get the
source (which after I dug into the "product" further I found I didn't
need). I think the flow control issue is either hardware or windows
based (the FIFO) because you can't rely on XOFF to halt PC data
instantly as far as I've seen. TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's
hiding of control characters.
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
> I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since
you can
> get the source (which after I dug into the "product" further
> I found I didn't need). I think the flow control issue is
> either hardware or windows based (the FIFO) because you can't
> rely on XOFF to halt PC data instantly as far as I've seen.
> TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's hiding of control characters.
>
>
I'm a bit confused with the direction of this thread - but for what its
worth - I found MTTTY to be good when I needed control over non-standard
flow control. Its error handling is not so good though.
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
17 official architecture ports, more than 6000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.SafeRTOS.com
Certified by T as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.
> get the source (which after I dug into the "product" further
> I found I didn't need). I think the flow control issue is
> either hardware or windows based (the FIFO) because you can't
> rely on XOFF to halt PC data instantly as far as I've seen.
> TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's hiding of control characters.
>
>
I'm a bit confused with the direction of this thread - but for what its
worth - I found MTTTY to be good when I needed control over non-standard
flow control. Its error handling is not so good though.
Regards,
Richard.
+ http://www.FreeRTOS.org
17 official architecture ports, more than 6000 downloads per month.
+ http://www.SafeRTOS.com
Certified by T as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
Since we (I) inadvertently hijacked this thread into a Hyperterm thing,
I'll
add my $0.02 on terminal programs.
I've been using ProComm for years, mostly because I've always had a licensed
copy. I install it without all the fax and "internet" stuff, just the data
terminal. It's reliable, it has scripting (complicated, powerful, and
rarely needed by me), and it's always "just worked".
Unfortunately, terminal programs are no longer mainstream software, and
there's not been any updates to speak of for it. It's biggest weakness is
that anything above COM9 isn't recognized. Not usually a problem with
hardware serial ports, but a lot of USB serial devices install at COM30 and
such.
I've heard people say good things about TeraTerm and putty, although I've
not used them. When I was at Hayes, someone introduced me to a program
called 'commo'. It was pretty nice, but at that point I had a handful of
scripts written in ProComm, and it wasn't worth switching them.
It's always been my contention that Hilgraeve must have pictures of Bill
Gates with a goat or something. Even Microsoft haters will concede there's
no way that something as bad as Hyperterm would be included with Windows (or
as I like to call it, the Freecell Operating System) without coercement.
Wikipedia has a like of terminal emulators:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terminal_emulators
Under Linux, I mostly use minicom. I like it because unlike some of the
KDE/Gnome/X based stuff, it's a good text mode terminal program.
--jc
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:00 PM, FreeRTOS.org Info wrote:
> > I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can
> > get the source (which after I dug into the "product" further
> > I found I didn't need). I think the flow control issue is
> > either hardware or windows based (the FIFO) because you can't
> > rely on XOFF to halt PC data instantly as far as I've seen.
> > TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's hiding of control characters.
> >
> > I'm a bit confused with the direction of this thread - but for what its
> worth - I found MTTTY to be good when I needed control over non-standard
> flow control. Its error handling is not so good though.
>
> Regards,
> Richard.
>
> + http://www.FreeRTOS.org
> 17 official architecture ports, more than 6000 downloads per month.
>
> + http://www.SafeRTOS.com
> Certified by T as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.
>
>
add my $0.02 on terminal programs.
I've been using ProComm for years, mostly because I've always had a licensed
copy. I install it without all the fax and "internet" stuff, just the data
terminal. It's reliable, it has scripting (complicated, powerful, and
rarely needed by me), and it's always "just worked".
Unfortunately, terminal programs are no longer mainstream software, and
there's not been any updates to speak of for it. It's biggest weakness is
that anything above COM9 isn't recognized. Not usually a problem with
hardware serial ports, but a lot of USB serial devices install at COM30 and
such.
I've heard people say good things about TeraTerm and putty, although I've
not used them. When I was at Hayes, someone introduced me to a program
called 'commo'. It was pretty nice, but at that point I had a handful of
scripts written in ProComm, and it wasn't worth switching them.
It's always been my contention that Hilgraeve must have pictures of Bill
Gates with a goat or something. Even Microsoft haters will concede there's
no way that something as bad as Hyperterm would be included with Windows (or
as I like to call it, the Freecell Operating System) without coercement.
Wikipedia has a like of terminal emulators:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terminal_emulators
Under Linux, I mostly use minicom. I like it because unlike some of the
KDE/Gnome/X based stuff, it's a good text mode terminal program.
--jc
On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 5:00 PM, FreeRTOS.org Info wrote:
> > I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can
> > get the source (which after I dug into the "product" further
> > I found I didn't need). I think the flow control issue is
> > either hardware or windows based (the FIFO) because you can't
> > rely on XOFF to halt PC data instantly as far as I've seen.
> > TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's hiding of control characters.
> >
> > I'm a bit confused with the direction of this thread - but for what its
> worth - I found MTTTY to be good when I needed control over non-standard
> flow control. Its error handling is not so good though.
>
> Regards,
> Richard.
>
> + http://www.FreeRTOS.org
> 17 official architecture ports, more than 6000 downloads per month.
>
> + http://www.SafeRTOS.com
> Certified by T as meeting the requirements for safety related systems.
>
>
Reply by ●August 22, 20082008-08-22
I use and recommend ;-) uCon.
Low frills. High features.
http://www.microcross.com/html/micromonitor.html
NB: you will need to scroll about half way down the page
(or search for 'uCon Embedded Console'
HTH
Ivan Vernot
> -----Original Message-----
> From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf
> Of J.C. Wren
> Sent: Saturday, 23 August 2008 8:38 AM
> To: l...
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: Anyone use Imagecraft ICC or Rowley CrossWorks?
>
> Since we (I) inadvertently hijacked this thread into a Hyperterm thing,
> I'll
> add my $0.02 on terminal programs.
>
> I've been using ProComm for years, mostly because I've always had a
> licensed
> copy. I install it without all the fax and "internet" stuff, just the
> data
> terminal. It's reliable, it has scripting (complicated, powerful, and
> rarely needed by me), and it's always "just worked".
Low frills. High features.
http://www.microcross.com/html/micromonitor.html
NB: you will need to scroll about half way down the page
(or search for 'uCon Embedded Console'
HTH
Ivan Vernot
> -----Original Message-----
> From: l... [mailto:l...] On Behalf
> Of J.C. Wren
> Sent: Saturday, 23 August 2008 8:38 AM
> To: l...
> Subject: Re: [lpc2000] Re: Anyone use Imagecraft ICC or Rowley CrossWorks?
>
> Since we (I) inadvertently hijacked this thread into a Hyperterm thing,
> I'll
> add my $0.02 on terminal programs.
>
> I've been using ProComm for years, mostly because I've always had a
> licensed
> copy. I install it without all the fax and "internet" stuff, just the
> data
> terminal. It's reliable, it has scripting (complicated, powerful, and
> rarely needed by me), and it's always "just worked".
Reply by ●August 23, 20082008-08-23
--- In l..., "J.C. Wren" wrote:
>
> Unless you're talking about Hyperterm. Then are no words that can be
> combined to adequately describe it's crappiness.
>
Well, you may be right but I'm willing to try...
Of all the freebie offerings that comes as standard with Windows,
nothing else offers more blatant basic functionality failures. Every
experienced developer uses !(Hyperterm). Even the 16-bit
'terminal.exe' from Win 3.1 is better. I am lost to explain why later
versions of Hyperterm have had extra protocol emulations added instead
of fixing the basic flaw that the data output on the screen is not the
same as that received on the serial port. Praise to the Lord that I
am primarily a Windows developer and can roll my own serial interfaces.
Last word - any application that takes longer to shut down using its
own 'close' sequence than stopping it dead with the task manager
deserves removal from my system.
OK, that's it. Will those words do?
Rgds,
Martin
>
> Unless you're talking about Hyperterm. Then are no words that can be
> combined to adequately describe it's crappiness.
>
Well, you may be right but I'm willing to try...
Of all the freebie offerings that comes as standard with Windows,
nothing else offers more blatant basic functionality failures. Every
experienced developer uses !(Hyperterm). Even the 16-bit
'terminal.exe' from Win 3.1 is better. I am lost to explain why later
versions of Hyperterm have had extra protocol emulations added instead
of fixing the basic flaw that the data output on the screen is not the
same as that received on the serial port. Praise to the Lord that I
am primarily a Windows developer and can roll my own serial interfaces.
Last word - any application that takes longer to shut down using its
own 'close' sequence than stopping it dead with the task manager
deserves removal from my system.
OK, that's it. Will those words do?
Rgds,
Martin
Reply by ●August 23, 20082008-08-23
Continuing the off-topic discussion of serial port terminal programs...
I've tried all the free ones over the years. The one I prefer by far
is Bray's Terminal (1.9b) - free. No user manual but 10 minutes and
you'll see how intuitive it is.
I've tried all the free ones over the years. The one I prefer by far
is Bray's Terminal (1.9b) - free. No user manual but 10 minutes and
you'll see how intuitive it is.
Reply by ●August 24, 20082008-08-24
>> One other thing: the package needs to pay attention
to hardware flow
>> control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
>> confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
>> when the flow control had the port turned off.
>>
>> I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
>I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can get the
>source (which after I dug into the "product" further I found I didn't
>need). I think the flow control issue is either hardware or windows
>based (the FIFO) because you can't rely on XOFF to halt PC data
>instantly as far as I've seen. TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's
>hiding of control characters.
...and the annoying problem with crashing when it receives certain
(don't know which) characters or illegal sequences on the input comm
port. The only way to recover is to close down TeraTerm (all open
instances of it!) and restart.
The connect/disconnect through the pull-down menus is a bit fiddly too,
if you need to do it a fair bit of it. Hyperterminal does have that bit
right.
I've noticed if you have a USB CDC comm port that you remove from
"under" TeraTerm, and then put back, you can't reconnect to that port,
unless you d/c TeraTerm, *then* re-initiate the CDC again. This could be
more a Windows issue, but other applications that talk to that serial
port can recover better (just a d/c then connect will do; don't need to
unplug/plug the USB again).
Great macro abilities though.
I've use Bray terminal too, but that uses up a lot of screen real-estate
if all you want is a simple comm monitor. Probably the best choice for
initial serial debugging though. Can play with the hardware handshaking
lines directly too.
>> control. I'm not 100% certain but at one point I was fairly
>> confident that Hyperterminal 'leaked' characters after a certain time
>> when the flow control had the port turned off.
>>
>> I am open to suggestions, even software that I might have to buy.
>I found TeraTerm totally adequate, especially since you can get the
>source (which after I dug into the "product" further I found I didn't
>need). I think the flow control issue is either hardware or windows
>based (the FIFO) because you can't rely on XOFF to halt PC data
>instantly as far as I've seen. TeraTerm's biggest weakness is it's
>hiding of control characters.
...and the annoying problem with crashing when it receives certain
(don't know which) characters or illegal sequences on the input comm
port. The only way to recover is to close down TeraTerm (all open
instances of it!) and restart.
The connect/disconnect through the pull-down menus is a bit fiddly too,
if you need to do it a fair bit of it. Hyperterminal does have that bit
right.
I've noticed if you have a USB CDC comm port that you remove from
"under" TeraTerm, and then put back, you can't reconnect to that port,
unless you d/c TeraTerm, *then* re-initiate the CDC again. This could be
more a Windows issue, but other applications that talk to that serial
port can recover better (just a d/c then connect will do; don't need to
unplug/plug the USB again).
Great macro abilities though.
I've use Bray terminal too, but that uses up a lot of screen real-estate
if all you want is a simple comm monitor. Probably the best choice for
initial serial debugging though. Can play with the hardware handshaking
lines directly too.
