Hi All,

I have an associate who is keen on producing a Delphi compiler for MSP430.
I don't know how that would really work, as opposed to Pascal, but he
reckons that Delphi
would be much better to work on embedded than "C" because you
can't stuff up
pointers etc.
(Disclaimer : I'm just quoting here, I don't have a clue)

POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost (command line)
Delphi compiler
for MSP430 ?

-- Kris

Hi Kris,

> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have an associate who is keen on producing a Delphi compiler for MSP430.
> I don't know how that would really work, as opposed to Pascal, but he
> reckons that Delphi
> would be much better to work on embedded than "C" because you
can't stuff up
> pointers etc.
> (Disclaimer : I'm just quoting here, I don't have a clue)
> 
> POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost (command line)
> Delphi compiler
> for MSP430 ?
> 
I am interested in a pascal compiler for the MSP, because I am using
pascal (delphi) for all my PC software.
When I started with the MSP, I was looking for such a compiler, but found
nothing.
Only an old message where someone in russia had build a small pascal compiler
for the MSP.
I tried to contact this guy, but the address in the message was not longer
valid.
Then I tried to do it by myself, did some first steps, but dropped it (less
time). 

Gunter

> -- Kris
> 
> 

> Hi Kris,
> 
> > 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > I have an associate who is keen on producing a Delphi compiler for
MSP430.
> > I don't know how that would really work, as opposed to Pascal,
but he
> > reckons that Delphi
> > would be much better to work on embedded than "C" because
you can't stuff up
> > pointers etc.
> > (Disclaimer : I'm just quoting here, I don't have a clue)
> > 
> > POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost (command
line)
> > Delphi compiler
> > for MSP430 ?
> > 
> > -- Kris
> 
> 

> I am interested in a pascal compiler for the MSP,
because I am using pascal (delphi) for all my PC software.
> When I started with the MSP, I was looking for such a compiler, but found
nothing.
> Only an old message where someone in russia had build a small pascal
compiler for the MSP.
> I tried to contact this guy, but the address in the message was not longer
valid.
> Then I tried to do it by myself, did some first steps, but dropped it (less
time). 
> 
> Gunter
> 
> 

On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:44:39PM +1100, microbit wrote:
> POLL Question : How many would be interested in a
low cost (command line)
> Delphi compiler
> for MSP430 ?

I avoid pointers in C as much as I can (and I need pointers in rare cases
only). I think Pascal is like C, just little differences (no need for
another very similar language). But why is delphi so popular? It is the
principle of the VCL - keep things as simple as possible, with the drawback
not to implement all possible functions (e.g. you can not access the angle
of fonts); but the possibility to use all functions (you can call all API
functions). And Delphi creates binary fast code. It has a nice easy to use
IDE (however I hate the window-chaos, but this is another story ;-)

A compiler (what ever language) that have a lib with basic functions for
hardware (at the lowest possible common basis) would be more interesting.
This lib has to be well thought (as the VCL is); very flexible (use a simple
mainloop aproach or a RTOS as basic, just selectable by the user); only
implement basics, but can simply extended and can shrinked to almost nothing
would be what I was looking for (This would save lot of times to reinvent
the wheel or twiddle others people snippets - look in the discussion of the
separate "examples thread" here).

(btw. the BasCom for the basic stamp works in this way, with drawbacks..)

        Matthias

Hi Matthias,

As for myself, I don't even really know the difference between Delphi and
Pascal :-)

I've found pointers to be an asset rather a liablity in C, and as long as
you make sure
you initialise them, it's hunkey-dorey.

But we've all been there I guess, using a pointer to say buffer something,
the pointer
points "somewhere", and it goes unnoticed.
Later the program grows, the pointer overwrites something and suddenly
Kabloom !
Of course one will look at the last change made, and look for ages in the
wrong place !

A mistake once made, lesson learnt hard, and not easily forgotten :-)
(Well that's how it was for me ...)

I'll ask this person how serious he is about an MSP430 Delphi compiler.

> A compiler (what ever language) that have a lib
with basic functions for
> hardware (at the lowest possible common basis) would be more interesting.

This is the frame of mind I had with RFBasic.
All low-level MSP430 (or other MCU) periheral functions are readily accessed
in the BASIC library,
including preemptive tasking and on-line (direct or program execution).
It's interpreted however, _not_ compiled.
Soon you'll be able to read all about it on the website.


-- Kris


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Weingart" <msp430@msp4...>
To: <msp430@msp4...>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 11:30 PM
Subject: Re: [msp430] POLL : Delphi Compiler for MSP430


> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:44:39PM +1100,
microbit wrote:
> > POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost (command
line)
> > Delphi compiler
> > for MSP430 ?
>
> I avoid pointers in C as much as I can (and I need pointers in rare cases
> only). I think Pascal is like C, just little differences (no need for
> another very similar language). But why is delphi so popular? It is the
> principle of the VCL - keep things as simple as possible, with the
drawback
> not to implement all possible functions (e.g. you
can not access the angle
> of fonts); but the possibility to use all functions (you can call all API
> functions). And Delphi creates binary fast code. It has a nice easy to use
> IDE (however I hate the window-chaos, but this is another story ;-)
>
> A compiler (what ever language) that have a lib with basic functions for
> hardware (at the lowest possible common basis) would be more interesting.
> This lib has to be well thought (as the VCL is); very flexible (use a
simple
> mainloop aproach or a RTOS as basic, just
selectable by the user); only
> implement basics, but can simply extended and can shrinked to almost
nothing
> would be what I was looking for (This would save
lot of times to reinvent
> the wheel or twiddle others people snippets - look in the discussion of
the
> separate "examples thread" here).
>
> (btw. the BasCom for the basic stamp works in this way, with drawbacks..)
>
>         Matthias
>
>       
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> 
>

Hello Matthias,

> -----Ursprgliche Nachricht-----
> Von:	Matthias Weingart [SMTP:msp430@msp4...]
> Gesendet am:	Montag, 1. Dezember 2003 13:31
> An:	msp430@msp4...
> Betreff:	Re: [msp430] POLL : Delphi Compiler for MSP430
> 
> On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:44:39PM +1100, microbit wrote:
> > POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost (command
line)
> > Delphi compiler
> > for MSP430 ?
> 
> I avoid pointers in C as much as I can (and I need pointers in rare cases
> only). I think Pascal is like C, just little differences (no need for
> another very similar language). But why is delphi so popular? It is the
> principle of the VCL - keep things as simple as possible, with the drawback
> not to implement all possible functions (e.g. you can not access the angle
> of fonts); but the possibility to use all functions (you can call all API
> functions). And Delphi creates binary fast code. It has a nice easy to use
> IDE (however I hate the window-chaos, but this is another story ;-)
> 
To be a little bit more concrete:
when calling procedures with parameters, the compiler mananges himself if he has
to use pointers or pushing the value on stack (this avoids much of throuble when
you forget a star in front of your parameter ;-).
An other advantage (may be) that pascal strictly checks your usage of variables
(types) and pointers to variables (if you use them, but I think in
microcontrollers you really need them) and parameters of procedures.
Also standard pascal has an easy to use string type and some basic routines to
manipulate strings, so you don't need to think to much if you have to call
the procedure with the adress of pointer or contens of pointer...

The advantage of delphi is that you can build (small) programs with even little
knowledge (of windows), but when demands grow and the VCL isn't enought,
you can go down to the windows basic apis.

> A compiler (what ever language) that have a lib
with basic functions for
> hardware (at the lowest possible common basis) would be more interesting.
> This lib has to be well thought (as the VCL is); very flexible (use a
simple
> mainloop aproach or a RTOS as basic, just selectable by the user); only
> implement basics, but can simply extended and can shrinked to almost
nothing
> would be what I was looking for (This would save lot of times to reinvent
> the wheel or twiddle others people snippets - look in the discussion of the
> separate "examples thread" here).
> 
> (btw. the BasCom for the basic stamp works in this way, with drawbacks..)
> 
>         Matthias
> 
> 
> 
> Click to learn more... 
<http://servedby.advertising.com/click/siteU2006/bnum70281862203593>" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://rd.yahoo.com/SIGcr7tgmk/M$3273.4156324.5364586.1261774/D=egroupweb/S05005378:HM/EXP70368262/A50744/R=0/*http://servedby.advertising.com/click/siteU2006/bnum70281862203593>	
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<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M$3273.4156324.5364586.1261774/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A50744/randY9734655>	
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> ">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. 

You can stuff up a pointer just ass effectively in Delphi or Pascal as
you can in C or C++.  Pascal/Delphi has new and dispose, C has malloc
and free, and C++ has new and delete.  If you mismanage pointers,
you'll
come a cropper in any language.

To be effective, a Delphi for MSP430 needs to generate code that's at
least as good as the worst compiler for the MSP430, otherwise it's a
toy.  It's not a big market.  Besides, it would be easy enough to put a
Pascal front end onto our code generator...

--
Paul Curtis, Rowley Associates Ltd http://www.rowley.co.uk
CrossWorks for MSP430 and ARM processors 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: microbit [mailto:microbit@micr...] 
> Sent: 01 December 2003 10:45
> To: msp430@msp4...
> Subject: [msp430] POLL : Delphi Compiler for MSP430
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I have an associate who is keen on producing a Delphi 
> compiler for MSP430. I don't know how that would really work, 
> as opposed to Pascal, but he reckons that Delphi would be 
> much better to work on embedded than "C" because you can't 
> stuff up pointers etc. (Disclaimer : I'm just quoting here, I 
> don't have a clue)
> 
> POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost 
> (command line) Delphi compiler for MSP430 ?
> 
> -- Kris
> 
> 
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
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.

 

">http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

Thanks for the info Paul,

Think we'll just leave it where it is then, maybe the guy just wanted it
for
a hobby, dunno :-)
It's up to him.

-- Kris

> You can stuff up a pointer just ass effectively in
Delphi or Pascal as
> you can in C or C++.  Pascal/Delphi has new and dispose, C has malloc
> and free, and C++ has new and delete.  If you mismanage pointers,
you'll
> come a cropper in any language.
>
> To be effective, a Delphi for MSP430 needs to generate code that's at
> least as good as the worst compiler for the MSP430, otherwise it's a
> toy.  It's not a big market.  Besides, it would be easy enough to put
a
> Pascal front end onto our code generator...

Mathias (und alle andere Leute):

My first post, so be gentle... ;)

1) A slight correction: BASCOM is a language for the AVR line of 
micro's from Atmel written by Mark Alberts (www.mcselec.com).  It is 
excellent, and I highly reccomend it (if you you are of the Atmel 
persuasion).

2) I REALLY NEED a BASIC compiler for the MSP430.  I have seen one 
or 2 posts that make reference to something called RFBasic (or 
something like that).  Does it exist?  Can it be obtained?  Help...


Peter

 
--- In msp430@msp4..., "Heuckeroth, Gunter" <heuckeg@e...> 
wrote:
> Hello Matthias,
> 
> > -----Ursprgliche Nachricht-----
> > Von:	Matthias Weingart [SMTP:msp430@p...]
> > Gesendet am:	Montag, 1. Dezember 2003 13:31
> > An:	msp430@msp4...
> > Betreff:	Re: [msp430] POLL : Delphi Compiler for MSP430
> > 
> > On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:44:39PM +1100, microbit wrote:
> > > POLL Question : How many would be interested in a low cost 
(command line)
> > > Delphi compiler
> > > for MSP430 ?
> > 
> > I avoid pointers in C as much as I can (and I need pointers in 
rare cases
> > only). I think Pascal is like C, just little
differences (no 
need for
> > another very similar language). But why is
delphi so popular? It 
is the
> > principle of the VCL - keep things as simple
as possible, with 
the drawback
> > not to implement all possible functions (e.g.
you can not access 
the angle
> > of fonts); but the possibility to use all
functions (you can 
call all API
> > functions). And Delphi creates binary fast
code. It has a nice 
easy to use
> > IDE (however I hate the window-chaos, but
this is another 
story ;-)
> > 
> To be a little bit more concrete:
> when calling procedures with parameters, the compiler mananges 
himself if he has to use pointers or pushing the value on stack 
(this avoids much of throuble when you forget a star in front of 
your parameter ;-).
> An other advantage (may be) that pascal strictly
checks your usage 
of variables (types) and pointers to variables (if you use them, but 
I think in microcontrollers you really need them) and parameters of 
procedures.
> Also standard pascal has an easy to use string
type and some basic 
routines to manipulate strings, so you don't need to think to much 
if you have to call the procedure with the adress of pointer or 
contens of pointer...
> 
> The advantage of delphi is that you can build (small) programs 
with even little knowledge (of windows), but when demands grow and 
the VCL isn't enought, you can go down to the windows basic apis.
> 
> > A compiler (what ever language) that have a lib with basic 
functions for
> > hardware (at the lowest possible common
basis) would be more 
interesting.
> > This lib has to be well thought (as the VCL
is); very flexible 
(use a simple
> > mainloop aproach or a RTOS as basic, just
selectable by the 
user); only
> > implement basics, but can simply extended and
can shrinked to 
almost nothing
> > would be what I was looking for (This would
save lot of times to 
reinvent
> > the wheel or twiddle others people snippets -
look in the 
discussion of the
> > separate "examples thread" here).
> > 
> > (btw. the BasCom for the basic stamp works in this way, with 
drawbacks..)
> > 
> >         Matthias

microbit wrote:
> Thanks for the info Paul,
> 
> Think we'll just leave it where it is then, maybe the guy just wanted
it for
> a hobby, dunno :-)
> It's up to him.
He could try to compile the pascal gcc frontend into mspgcc...

	Georg


> 
> -- Kris
> 
> 
>>You can stuff up a pointer just ass effectively in Delphi or Pascal as
...