16F628 in-circuit programming problem

Started by leon_heller February 13, 2005

This is a weird one! I've added connections for in-circuit
programming to my JDM programmer, and it works OK with a 16F88 on the
target board. However, when I try to program a 16F628 on the same
target board programming fails on the first location. The chip
programs OK when plugged into the socket on the programmer. I've got
RB4 (pin 10) tied low on the target board, as on the programmer. I'm
using IC-Prog.

Has anyone got any suggestions?

Leon




I'd like to know too, because I've never been able to ICSP a 16F628
with the PG-2C. In fact, even using the on-board socket I've found
the PG-2C to be unreliable.

Mike --- In , "leon_heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
>
> This is a weird one! I've added connections for in-circuit
> programming to my JDM programmer, and it works OK with a 16F88 on
the
> target board. However, when I try to program a 16F628 on the same
> target board programming fails on the first location. The chip
> programs OK when plugged into the socket on the programmer. I've
got
> RB4 (pin 10) tied low on the target board, as on the programmer.
I'm
> using IC-Prog.
>
> Has anyone got any suggestions?
>
> Leon




--- In , "upand_at_them" <upand_at_them@y...>
wrote:
>
> I'd like to know too, because I've never been able to ICSP a 16F628
> with the PG-2C. In fact, even using the on-board socket I've found
> the PG-2C to be unreliable.

I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you contacted
them about the problem?

I've just managed to program a different '628 with ICSP, but it only
worked once! I've tried using an external supply and that doesn't
work either. Now, I can't get a '628 to program in the socket either!
The '88 is still OK, though.

I think I'll try a different programmer.

Leon




> I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
> the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you contacted
> them about the problem?

Olimex makes it. Spark Fun is just a distributor. I guess I should
know better than to expect too much from a $10 programmer.

> I think I'll try a different programmer.

Me too. Do you know about the Wisp628? It does ICSP and I have
heard a lot of good things about it.

Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: "upand_at_them" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 1:20 PM
Subject: [piclist] Re: 16F628 in-circuit programming problem >
>
>> I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
>> the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you contacted
>> them about the problem?
>
> Olimex makes it. Spark Fun is just a distributor. I guess I should
> know better than to expect too much from a $10 programmer.
>
>> I think I'll try a different programmer.
>
> Me too. Do you know about the Wisp628? It does ICSP and I have
> heard a lot of good things about it.

That's what I'll use. I ordered a programmed '628 from Wouter which I've got
somewhere. I was intending to design and make a PCB for it.

I just tried a '628 in the JDM programmer socket, and it's working again. I
really need ICSP, because I've got surface mount '627s I want to use.

Leon
--


----- Original Message -----
From: "upand_at_them" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:20 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: 16F628 in-circuit programming problem >
>
>> I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
>> the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you contacted
>> them about the problem?
>
> Olimex makes it. Spark Fun is just a distributor. I guess I should
> know better than to expect too much from a $10 programmer.
>
>> I think I'll try a different programmer.
>
> Me too. Do you know about the Wisp628? It does ICSP and I have
> heard a lot of good things about it.
>
> Mike >
Hi,
Re: the Olimex PG2C I found this info from Peter H. Anderson who teaches
Embedded contollers at Morgan State University,in Baltimore Marland. It is
info from one of his PG2C auctions:
"The latest units I received from Olimex (PG2C) have an added six terminal
connector for In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP). I caution against using
this to connect to external circuitry. Rather, use the on-board sockets for
programming.

I offer caution as the negative rail of the PC Com Port, nominally -8 VDC,
is used as ground on the programmer and this is fine so long as the
programmer is isolated from other circuitry. However, in using the ICSP
connector to wire to a PIC in a circuit that is referenced to ground will
cause the PC Com port's negative rail to be connected to ground. The
programmer will not work.

In summary, Olimex has added an ICSP connector, but I question its utility.
Use the sockets on the programmer."

I just figured that I would pass this along.

Jeff Galinat



--- In , "leon_heller" <leon.heller@d...>
wrote:
>
> --- In , "upand_at_them"
<upand_at_them@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'd like to know too, because I've never been able to ICSP a
16F628
> > with the PG-2C. In fact, even using the on-board socket I've
found
> > the PG-2C to be unreliable.
>
> I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
> the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you
contacted
> them about the problem?
>
> I've just managed to program a different '628 with ICSP, but it
only
> worked once! I've tried using an external supply and that doesn't
> work either. Now, I can't get a '628 to program in the socket
either!
> The '88 is still OK, though.
>
> I think I'll try a different programmer.
>
> Leon
Hi,
Re: the Olimex PG2C I found this info from Peter H. Anderson who
teaches
Embedded contollers at Morgan State University,in Baltimore Marland.
It is
info from one of his PG2C auctions:
"The latest units I received from Olimex (PG2C) have an added six
terminal
connector for In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP). I caution against
using
this to connect to external circuitry. Rather, use the on-board
sockets for
programming.

I offer caution as the negative rail of the PC Com Port, nominally -8
VDC,
is used as ground on the programmer and this is fine so long as the
programmer is isolated from other circuitry. However, in using the
ICSP
connector to wire to a PIC in a circuit that is referenced to ground
will
cause the PC Com port's negative rail to be connected to ground. The
programmer will not work.

In summary, Olimex has added an ICSP connector, but I question its
utility.
Use the sockets on the programmer."

I just figured that I would pass this along.

Jeff Galinat


----- Original Message -----
From: "jgalinat2004" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: [piclist] Re: 16F628 in-circuit programming problem >
>
> --- In , "leon_heller" <leon.heller@d...>
> wrote:
>>
>> --- In , "upand_at_them"
> <upand_at_them@y...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I'd like to know too, because I've never been able to ICSP a
> 16F628
>> > with the PG-2C. In fact, even using the on-board socket I've
> found
>> > the PG-2C to be unreliable.
>>
>> I see the PG2C is made by Spark Fun, and is apparently the same as
>> the JDM. They use the '628 in their ICSP example, have you
> contacted
>> them about the problem?
>>
>> I've just managed to program a different '628 with ICSP, but it
> only
>> worked once! I've tried using an external supply and that doesn't
>> work either. Now, I can't get a '628 to program in the socket
> either!
>> The '88 is still OK, though.
>>
>> I think I'll try a different programmer.
>>
>> Leon
> Hi,
> Re: the Olimex PG2C I found this info from Peter H. Anderson who
> teaches
> Embedded contollers at Morgan State University,in Baltimore Marland.
> It is
> info from one of his PG2C auctions:
> "The latest units I received from Olimex (PG2C) have an added six
> terminal
> connector for In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP). I caution against
> using
> this to connect to external circuitry. Rather, use the on-board
> sockets for
> programming.
>
> I offer caution as the negative rail of the PC Com Port, nominally -8
> VDC,
> is used as ground on the programmer and this is fine so long as the
> programmer is isolated from other circuitry. However, in using the
> ICSP
> connector to wire to a PIC in a circuit that is referenced to ground
> will
> cause the PC Com port's negative rail to be connected to ground. The
> programmer will not work.
>
> In summary, Olimex has added an ICSP connector, but I question its
> utility.
> Use the sockets on the programmer."
>
> I just figured that I would pass this along.

Thanks, Jeff.

I have my target board powered off the ICSP connector, that *should* be OK,
but I still have problems with the '628

Leon.
--



--- In , "jgalinat2004" <jgalinat@o...> wrote:
> Hi,
> Re: the Olimex PG2C I found this info from Peter H. Anderson who
> teaches
> Embedded contollers at Morgan State University,in Baltimore
Marland.
> It is
> info from one of his PG2C auctions:
> "The latest units I received from Olimex (PG2C) have an added six
> terminal
> connector for In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP). I caution
against
> using
> this to connect to external circuitry. Rather, use the on-board
> sockets for
> programming.
>
> I offer caution as the negative rail of the PC Com Port, nominally -
8
> VDC,
> is used as ground on the programmer and this is fine so long as the
> programmer is isolated from other circuitry. However, in using the
> ICSP
> connector to wire to a PIC in a circuit that is referenced to
ground
> will
> cause the PC Com port's negative rail to be connected to ground.
The
> programmer will not work.


Such remark comming from a teacher makes me at least to smile. The
programmer in discution is not a debugger nor a developing board
which is permanently connected to a computer port.
The user application ground have nothing to do with the computer
ground. It might be connected to any potential comming from the RS232
lines from the computer. This is the principle of the JDM programmer.
Any potential of the COM port (positive or negative) may be connected
with the users PCB application ground as long as the ground line of
the COM port is not connected also with the user PCB ground (which
means short circuit). And of course in JDM or PG2C programmer this
short circuit is not connected, only if the user is trying to
communicate with the PC while is programming the PIC (crazy thing,
attention please the thing is crazy, not other person!) Leon, the JDM ICSP problem is produced by the very small programming
current (and sensitive voltage level of VPP) achieved from the port.
If all other consumers on the application board are not carefully
isolated from the ICSP lines, the programming verification sequence
will return error. That's why some PIC's may be programmed and others
may not.

I do not have nothing in common with Olimex products, I do not use
Olimex products even I see the capitalist world like cheap things.
:)

best regards,
Vasile


----- Original Message -----
From: "Vasile Surducan" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: [piclist] Re: 16F628 in-circuit programming problem >
>
> --- In , "jgalinat2004" <jgalinat@o...> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Re: the Olimex PG2C I found this info from Peter H. Anderson who
>> teaches
>> Embedded contollers at Morgan State University,in Baltimore
> Marland.
>> It is
>> info from one of his PG2C auctions:
>> "The latest units I received from Olimex (PG2C) have an added six
>> terminal
>> connector for In Circuit Serial Programming (ICSP). I caution
> against
>> using
>> this to connect to external circuitry. Rather, use the on-board
>> sockets for
>> programming.
>>
>> I offer caution as the negative rail of the PC Com Port, nominally -
> 8
>> VDC,
>> is used as ground on the programmer and this is fine so long as the
>> programmer is isolated from other circuitry. However, in using the
>> ICSP
>> connector to wire to a PIC in a circuit that is referenced to
> ground
>> will
>> cause the PC Com port's negative rail to be connected to ground.
> The
>> programmer will not work. > Such remark comming from a teacher makes me at least to smile. The
> programmer in discution is not a debugger nor a developing board
> which is permanently connected to a computer port.
> The user application ground have nothing to do with the computer
> ground. It might be connected to any potential comming from the RS232
> lines from the computer. This is the principle of the JDM programmer.
> Any potential of the COM port (positive or negative) may be connected
> with the users PCB application ground as long as the ground line of
> the COM port is not connected also with the user PCB ground (which
> means short circuit). And of course in JDM or PG2C programmer this
> short circuit is not connected, only if the user is trying to
> communicate with the PC while is programming the PIC (crazy thing,
> attention please the thing is crazy, not other person!) > Leon, the JDM ICSP problem is produced by the very small programming
> current (and sensitive voltage level of VPP) achieved from the port.
> If all other consumers on the application board are not carefully
> isolated from the ICSP lines, the programming verification sequence
> will return error. That's why some PIC's may be programmed and others
> may not.


I was beginning to think it must be something like that.

Leon --