Many thanks Neil.
Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various reasons we are using
lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in Europe we will have to meet
rohsys standards and use lead free components but they will be powered by
batteries containg maybe 500 grams of lead and thats all legal.
Regards
Alan Matheson
Atech Research Ltd
New Zealand
----- Original Message -----
From: neil2452
To: r...
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
asking
are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is happening
to the product before it is shipped.
When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU unit
they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a peice
of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct operation
of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
them.
As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about 250
not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had 25
out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to simple
faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto than
finding a new duff part from them.
The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to build
given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they use
and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder in
europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our tv's
etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the end
of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ? Perhaps
the answer is somewhere between the two.
Regards
Neil
--- In r..., "Alan Matheson"
wrote:
>
> We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100 modules. A
small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't accept
a
300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
news.
Has anyone else come across this problem.
> Alan Matheson
>
RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
Started by ●August 6, 2007
Reply by ●August 12, 20072007-08-12
Reply by ●August 13, 20072007-08-13
Its realy hard to fathom the logic that the EU RoSH burocrats used
when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy like
me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt auto
industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water his
cabbages and thats safe !!
--- In r..., "Alan Matheson"
wrote:
>
> Many thanks Neil.
> Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various reasons
we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
grams of lead and thats all legal.
>
> Regards
> Alan Matheson
> Atech Research Ltd
> New Zealand
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: neil2452
> To: r...
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> asking
> are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
happening
> to the product before it is shipped.
>
> When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
unit
> they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
peice
> of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
operation
> of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> them.
>
> As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
250
> not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
25
> out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
simple
> faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
than
> finding a new duff part from them.
>
> The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
build
> given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
use
> and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
in
> europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
tv's
> etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
end
> of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
Perhaps
> the answer is somewhere between the two.
>
> Regards
> Neil
>
> --- In r..., "Alan Matheson"
>
> wrote:
> >
> > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
modules. A
> small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
accept
> a
> 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> news.
> Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > Alan Matheson
>
when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy like
me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt auto
industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water his
cabbages and thats safe !!
--- In r..., "Alan Matheson"
wrote:
>
> Many thanks Neil.
> Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various reasons
we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
grams of lead and thats all legal.
>
> Regards
> Alan Matheson
> Atech Research Ltd
> New Zealand
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: neil2452
> To: r...
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> asking
> are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
happening
> to the product before it is shipped.
>
> When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
unit
> they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
peice
> of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
operation
> of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> them.
>
> As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
250
> not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
25
> out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
simple
> faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
than
> finding a new duff part from them.
>
> The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
build
> given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
use
> and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
in
> europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
tv's
> etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
end
> of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
Perhaps
> the answer is somewhere between the two.
>
> Regards
> Neil
>
> --- In r..., "Alan Matheson"
>
> wrote:
> >
> > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
modules. A
> small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
accept
> a
> 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> news.
> Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > Alan Matheson
>
Reply by ●August 13, 20072007-08-13
LOL
The irony is the best battery chemistries still contain lead. Ni-cads are
great, look after them and they can last years.
These new types (NiMh) start decaying the day they are made. They only last
about 2 years from date of manufacture. So when purchasing one, ask when it
was made. Imagine if it lay on the shelf for 18 months..
Of course there is the hype about the RoHS solder and fluxes being more
toxic than agents used in leaded products. So the poor personnel in the
assembly plants are now exposed to more hazardous chemicals.
Another point about device failures. I have an interesting theory. Some of
you will laugh at me, but here goes.
On the Rabbit CPU's there are the programming lines that are routed to a
programming header. Personally I have never had a CPU fail. I use the
modules and a custom design with their CPU's. In the field that is another
issue. I have had many cards returned for repair. In each and every case I
had to replace the CPU. It took me a while to figure this out - and since
then the problem seems to have gone.
Both my clients were using laptops to program the devices. I think that
there was a potential difference between the cards and the laptop. When
connecting the programming cable the Rabbit was damaged. After issuing an
instruction that both devices must share a common ground, that the
programming connector be connected to the rabbit first and then the laptop
the problem has gone. I believe the programming header on the boards should
have a ground pin that is a little longer than the others. When connecting
the programming cable, this pin will make contact first.
Alexis.
_____
From: r... [mailto:r...] On
Behalf Of neil2452
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 AM
To: r...
Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
Its realy hard to fathom the logic that the EU RoSH burocrats used
when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy like
me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt auto
industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water his
cabbages and thats safe !!
--- In rabbit-semi@ yahoogroups.com,
"Alan Matheson"
wrote:
>
> Many thanks Neil.
> Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various reasons
we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
grams of lead and thats all legal.
>
> Regards
> Alan Matheson
> Atech Research Ltd
> New Zealand
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: neil2452
> To: rabbit-semi@ yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> asking
> are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
happening
> to the product before it is shipped.
>
> When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
unit
> they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
peice
> of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
operation
> of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> them.
>
> As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
250
> not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
25
> out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
simple
> faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
than
> finding a new duff part from them.
>
> The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
build
> given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
use
> and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
in
> europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
tv's
> etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
end
> of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
Perhaps
> the answer is somewhere between the two.
>
> Regards
> Neil
>
> --- In rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com, "Alan Matheson"
>
> wrote:
> >
> > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
modules. A
> small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
accept
> a
> 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> news.
> Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > Alan Matheson
>
The irony is the best battery chemistries still contain lead. Ni-cads are
great, look after them and they can last years.
These new types (NiMh) start decaying the day they are made. They only last
about 2 years from date of manufacture. So when purchasing one, ask when it
was made. Imagine if it lay on the shelf for 18 months..
Of course there is the hype about the RoHS solder and fluxes being more
toxic than agents used in leaded products. So the poor personnel in the
assembly plants are now exposed to more hazardous chemicals.
Another point about device failures. I have an interesting theory. Some of
you will laugh at me, but here goes.
On the Rabbit CPU's there are the programming lines that are routed to a
programming header. Personally I have never had a CPU fail. I use the
modules and a custom design with their CPU's. In the field that is another
issue. I have had many cards returned for repair. In each and every case I
had to replace the CPU. It took me a while to figure this out - and since
then the problem seems to have gone.
Both my clients were using laptops to program the devices. I think that
there was a potential difference between the cards and the laptop. When
connecting the programming cable the Rabbit was damaged. After issuing an
instruction that both devices must share a common ground, that the
programming connector be connected to the rabbit first and then the laptop
the problem has gone. I believe the programming header on the boards should
have a ground pin that is a little longer than the others. When connecting
the programming cable, this pin will make contact first.
Alexis.
_____
From: r... [mailto:r...] On
Behalf Of neil2452
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 AM
To: r...
Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
Its realy hard to fathom the logic that the EU RoSH burocrats used
when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy like
me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt auto
industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water his
cabbages and thats safe !!
--- In rabbit-semi@ yahoogroups.com,
"Alan Matheson"
wrote:
>
> Many thanks Neil.
> Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various reasons
we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
grams of lead and thats all legal.
>
> Regards
> Alan Matheson
> Atech Research Ltd
> New Zealand
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: neil2452
> To: rabbit-semi@ yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> asking
> are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
happening
> to the product before it is shipped.
>
> When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
unit
> they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
peice
> of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
operation
> of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> them.
>
> As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
250
> not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
25
> out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
simple
> faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
than
> finding a new duff part from them.
>
> The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
build
> given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
use
> and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
in
> europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
tv's
> etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
end
> of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
Perhaps
> the answer is somewhere between the two.
>
> Regards
> Neil
>
> --- In rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com, "Alan Matheson"
>
> wrote:
> >
> > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
modules. A
> small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
accept
> a
> 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> news.
> Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > Alan Matheson
>
Reply by ●August 13, 20072007-08-13
I have recently been and got myself some programming cables from
MicroControls. They may be quite helpful during development if the
grounding is suspected as a source of trouble. Instead of pluging
and un-pluging the "Prog" and "Diag" connectors onto the header there
is blue box with a switch to do the same, therefore the ground is
permantly connected. So as long as you hook up the first time
correctly everything should be ok.
I have not ever purchased a lot of RCM's but I have had a dudd one
that I could'nt program. Its a pitty theres no spare board space for
some proper rs232 or rs485 buffers on the programming port, that
would make them more robust.
Neil
--- In r..., "Alexis" wrote:
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> The irony is the best battery chemistries still contain lead. Ni-
cads are
> great, look after them and they can last years.
>
>
>
> These new types (NiMh) start decaying the day they are made. They
only last
> about 2 years from date of manufacture. So when purchasing one, ask
when it
> was made. Imagine if it lay on the shelf for 18 months..
>
>
>
> Of course there is the hype about the RoHS solder and fluxes being
more
> toxic than agents used in leaded products. So the poor personnel in
the
> assembly plants are now exposed to more hazardous chemicals.
>
>
>
> Another point about device failures. I have an interesting theory.
Some of
> you will laugh at me, but here goes.
>
>
>
> On the Rabbit CPU's there are the programming lines that are routed
to a
> programming header. Personally I have never had a CPU fail. I use
the
> modules and a custom design with their CPU's. In the field that is
another
> issue. I have had many cards returned for repair. In each and every
case I
> had to replace the CPU. It took me a while to figure this out - and
since
> then the problem seems to have gone.
>
>
>
> Both my clients were using laptops to program the devices. I think
that
> there was a potential difference between the cards and the laptop.
When
> connecting the programming cable the Rabbit was damaged. After
issuing an
> instruction that both devices must share a common ground, that the
> programming connector be connected to the rabbit first and then the
laptop
> the problem has gone. I believe the programming header on the
boards should
> have a ground pin that is a little longer than the others. When
connecting
> the programming cable, this pin will make contact first.
>
>
>
> Alexis.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: r... [mailto:rabbit-
s...] On
> Behalf Of neil2452
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 AM
> To: r...
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
>
>
>
> Its realy hard to fathom the logic that the EU RoSH burocrats used
> when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
> environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy
like
> me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
> GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt
auto
> industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
>
> Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
> in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
> church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
> going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
> verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water
his
> cabbages and thats safe !!
>
> --- In rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com,
> "Alan Matheson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks Neil.
> > Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various
reasons
> we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
> Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
> components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
> grams of lead and thats all legal.
> >
> > Regards
> > Alan Matheson
> > Atech Research Ltd
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: neil2452
> > To: rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> > Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> >
> >
> > You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> > asking
> > are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
> happening
> > to the product before it is shipped.
> >
> > When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
> unit
> > they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> > running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
> peice
> > of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
> operation
> > of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> > them.
> >
> > As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
> 250
> > not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
> 25
> > out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
> simple
> > faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> > componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> > automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> > there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> > semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> > testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
> than
> > finding a new duff part from them.
> >
> > The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
> build
> > given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
> use
> > and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
> in
> > europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
> tv's
> > etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
> end
> > of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> > are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> > everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
> Perhaps
> > the answer is somewhere between the two.
> >
> > Regards
> > Neil
> >
> > --- In rabbit-semi@
> yahoogroups.com, "Alan Matheson"
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
> modules. A
> > small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
> accept
> > a
> > 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> > Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> > news.
> > Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > > Alan Matheson
> > >
>
MicroControls. They may be quite helpful during development if the
grounding is suspected as a source of trouble. Instead of pluging
and un-pluging the "Prog" and "Diag" connectors onto the header there
is blue box with a switch to do the same, therefore the ground is
permantly connected. So as long as you hook up the first time
correctly everything should be ok.
I have not ever purchased a lot of RCM's but I have had a dudd one
that I could'nt program. Its a pitty theres no spare board space for
some proper rs232 or rs485 buffers on the programming port, that
would make them more robust.
Neil
--- In r..., "Alexis" wrote:
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> The irony is the best battery chemistries still contain lead. Ni-
cads are
> great, look after them and they can last years.
>
>
>
> These new types (NiMh) start decaying the day they are made. They
only last
> about 2 years from date of manufacture. So when purchasing one, ask
when it
> was made. Imagine if it lay on the shelf for 18 months..
>
>
>
> Of course there is the hype about the RoHS solder and fluxes being
more
> toxic than agents used in leaded products. So the poor personnel in
the
> assembly plants are now exposed to more hazardous chemicals.
>
>
>
> Another point about device failures. I have an interesting theory.
Some of
> you will laugh at me, but here goes.
>
>
>
> On the Rabbit CPU's there are the programming lines that are routed
to a
> programming header. Personally I have never had a CPU fail. I use
the
> modules and a custom design with their CPU's. In the field that is
another
> issue. I have had many cards returned for repair. In each and every
case I
> had to replace the CPU. It took me a while to figure this out - and
since
> then the problem seems to have gone.
>
>
>
> Both my clients were using laptops to program the devices. I think
that
> there was a potential difference between the cards and the laptop.
When
> connecting the programming cable the Rabbit was damaged. After
issuing an
> instruction that both devices must share a common ground, that the
> programming connector be connected to the rabbit first and then the
laptop
> the problem has gone. I believe the programming header on the
boards should
> have a ground pin that is a little longer than the others. When
connecting
> the programming cable, this pin will make contact first.
>
>
>
> Alexis.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: r... [mailto:rabbit-
s...] On
> Behalf Of neil2452
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:14 AM
> To: r...
> Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
>
>
>
> Its realy hard to fathom the logic that the EU RoSH burocrats used
> when they dreamt up the idea that to much lead is put in the
> environment by the electronics industry. They want a little guy
like
> me who uses less than 500g a year not to use lead solder but Ford &
> GM etc can use as much as they like because there in the exempt
auto
> industry !! Its bananas, they should start with the big guys first.
>
> Also its now illegal to repair church organ pipes made of lead here
> in the EU but it seems to be ok to slap 50Kg patch of lead on the
> church roof to fix a leak. Its bananas, do they assume the vicar is
> going to be licking his organ and die from lead poisoning, but the
> verger can use the rain water off that lovely lead roof to water
his
> cabbages and thats safe !!
>
> --- In rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com,
> "Alan Matheson"
> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks Neil.
> > Youre comments about lead are also interesting. For various
reasons
> we are using lead-tin rechargable batteries in our product. So in
> Europe we will have to meet rohsys standards and use lead free
> components but they will be powered by batteries containg maybe 500
> grams of lead and thats all legal.
> >
> > Regards
> > Alan Matheson
> > Atech Research Ltd
> > New Zealand
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: neil2452
> > To: rabbit-semi@
yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:35 PM
> > Subject: [rabbit-semi] Re: RCM3720 Reliabilty Issues
> >
> >
> > You need answers from Zworld I think. The questions I would be
> > asking
> > are what Q&A procedures are they using, and what testing is
> happening
> > to the product before it is shipped.
> >
> > When I used to work with Lucas some years ago each and every ECU
> unit
> > they made would go through a burn in test. This was literally
> > running the boards in an oven for several hours hooked up to a
> peice
> > of ATE that simulated the car and checked for the correct
> operation
> > of all the I/O pins. We made ATE (Automatic Test Equipment) for
> > them.
> >
> > As an example of PCB assembly yeild rates I have just had about
> 250
> > not too sophisticated SMT PIC circuits built in LeadFree. I had
> 25
> > out of the batch that failed on my test rig. Most fail due to
> simple
> > faults like bridged pins, or toomstoning, or occasionaly missing
> > componenets. The raw PCBs should normally have gone through an
> > automatic bare board test so there should be less to worry about
> > there. Also I can't remember the last time I had duff chip from a
> > semiconductor manufacturer so I am sure they do rigourous QA and
> > testing. I think you have a bigger chance of winning the lotto
> than
> > finding a new duff part from them.
> >
> > The RCM modules I would think are quite deemanding circuits to
> build
> > given a multilayer PCB design and the realy small components they
> use
> > and now LeadFree (Why are we crazey about not using lead solder
> in
> > europe, I bet theres more lead on are church roofs than in our
> tv's
> > etc). If they just drop the boards in a box as they roll off the
> end
> > of the line then duff boards will be shipped for sure. However if
> > are they are doing a proper burnin test with ATE that checks
> > everything then how can they explain your 5% failure rate ?
> Perhaps
> > the answer is somewhere between the two.
> >
> > Regards
> > Neil
> >
> > --- In rabbit-semi@
> yahoogroups.com, "Alan Matheson"
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > We are beginning to notice problems with Zworld RCM3100
> modules. A
> > small percentage, around 5% I'm told of brand new units won't
> accept
> > a
> > 300kb program. Tend to give up half way through the program load.
> > Given that we are looking at using 200 per month this is very bad
> > news.
> > Has anyone else come across this problem.
> > > Alan Matheson
> > >
>
