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Hi, "rtstofer" <> Wrote: > The devices chosen for a design will ALWAYS come down to the least > expensive device capable of doing the job at hand. Engineers don't > choose devices, Purchasing does. Who cares how nice they treated > you in college - if the company needs 100,000+ parts Purchasing will > be making the choices, with or without input from Engineering - > engineers probably won't even be invited to the meetings. Ever > notice how the Sales people come to talk to engineers but always > want to know who is making the decisions? They know full well it > isn't Engineering. This is true, but very very sad. This is also why we see so many crappy, buggy and unstable products on the market more and more often. There was a time when the engineer chose the tool, and purchasing bought it, but asked the engineer if they thought a cheaper one could also do. Now, as you say, they don't bother asking. A good engineer, however, will always use the cheapest possible part that will do the job too, and won't choose the latest chip just because it's cool. > At the end of the day, its about profit margin - for everyone. A > product has a price target and competition to keep it there; every > bit of manufacturing cost that can be driven out, will be. So what > if the engineering time and programming expense is a little higher > if a company can get lower production costs and higher margins? > Engineering is an expense; a side issue of getting the product out > the door. But if the product is inferior, in the long run it will be worse for the company image - the sad thing too is that a lot of companies are relying on cheap labor, usually students not having finished their degrees, to design their products. Yes, they should be supervised, but more often than not, they are given a job and told to 'get on with it'. Who is going to bother checking the hundreds or thousands of lines of code this inexperienced person has written? If they had to double-check everything, they wouldn't bother getting these people in the first place. Note: I have nothing against work experience while you are a student or just come out of faculty, but I don't agree with putting them at the wheel unsupervised. Best regards, Mike |
PIC10F competition
Started by ●August 19, 2004
Reply by ●August 29, 20042004-08-29
Reply by ●August 30, 20042004-08-30
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Leackage is a trick often understandable just by the analog engineers. That's maybe why, on a software discussion group noone will stop to answer to your question. That current does not matter for the sleep state comparable with the microcontroller sourced current. But it is very important for the AD input impedance or for the DA conversion using filtered PWM. Probably for the comparator inputs too. Knowing exactly the AD input leackage you know for instance that can go much higher than 20K (or 10K for some PICs) input impedance, value that Microchip is strongly suggesting in the datasheet. That means sometime you don't need buffers. And that means for 1K product will be cheaper because will be a smaller pcb, less components to solder etc. top 10 wishes, Vasile http://surducan.netfirms.com On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Mr S wrote: > It looks like 2% to me? > 18 pins = something like < 15uamps on a PIC if ground > and Vcc do not have leakage. > > Same size Atmel would be < 14.7 uamps? > > Why is that interesting? Does either have a 'sleep > mode' with zero leakage? That would be interesting? > > --- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote: > > > > The really > > > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet was > > that maximum leakage > > > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and Microchip > > is way up there at 1 > > > ua. > > > > Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this just a > > difference 2% ? > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > -- ------- > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and > > follow the instructions > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and follow the instructions > Yahoo! Groups Links |
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Reply by ●August 30, 20042004-08-30
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Vasile, Thank you, leakage current on the analog i/o makes sense now, and IS interesting. Cheers --- Vasile Surducan <> wrote: > > Leackage is a trick often understandable just by the > analog engineers. > That's maybe why, on a software discussion group > noone will stop to answer > to your question. That current does not matter for > the sleep state > comparable with the microcontroller sourced current. > But it is very important for the AD input impedance > or for the DA > conversion using filtered PWM. Probably for the > comparator inputs too. > Knowing exactly the AD input leackage you know for > instance that can go > much higher than 20K (or 10K for some PICs) input > impedance, value that > Microchip is strongly suggesting in the datasheet. > That means sometime you don't need buffers. And that > means for 1K > product will be cheaper because will be a smaller > pcb, less components to > solder etc. > > top 10 wishes, > Vasile > http://surducan.netfirms.com > On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Mr S wrote: > > > It looks like 2% to me? > > 18 pins = something like < 15uamps on a PIC if > ground > > and Vcc do not have leakage. > > > > Same size Atmel would be < 14.7 uamps? > > > > Why is that interesting? Does either have a 'sleep > > mode' with zero leakage? That would be > interesting? > > > > > > > > --- Wouter van Ooijen <> wrote: > > > > > > The really > > > > interesting number I saw on the Atmel sheet > was > > > that maximum leakage > > > > current on a typical pin is 980 na. and > Microchip > > > is way up there at 1 > > > > ua. > > > > > > Am I too rusty in my powers of 10 or is this > just a > > > difference 2% ? > > > > > > Wouter van Ooijen > > > > > > -- ------- > > > Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl > > > consultancy, development, PICmicro products > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com > and > > > follow the instructions > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com > and follow the instructions > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/dN_tlB/TM > --------------------------------~-> > > > to unsubscribe, go to http://www.yahoogroups.com and > follow the instructions > Yahoo! Groups Links > > __________________________________ |
Reply by ●August 31, 20042004-08-31
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----- Original Message ----- From: "t402_owner" <> To: <> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 9:26 AM Subject: [piclist] Re: PIC10F competition > golf swing gadget ... meter er... thingy?... :-) Way cool! Congrats! > > btw did you read about the guy who sent over 30 designs ? amazing... > > i thought of sending something - a light operated burglar alarm that > would continuously check the level of luminosity against a 10 minute > average - but somewhat lost interest in the process (not that > original either...) > > Anyway just to say... well done! :-) Thanks. I have subsequently found a similar device on the web (using a 3-axis accelerometer), but it's *much* more complex, larger and quite expensive. The PICkit 1 prize has given me a few ideas for interesting applications using the 12F675. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM http://webspace.webring.com/people/jl/leon_heller/ |
