A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. Regards, Murray R. Van Luyn.
8052 HomePage going, going...
Started by ●December 13, 2009
Reply by ●December 13, 20092009-12-13
Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my > 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: > > http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ > > Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you can, > as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. > > Regards, > Murray R. Van Luyn. > >What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? don
Reply by ●December 13, 20092009-12-13
don wrote:> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on >> my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >> >> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >> >> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >> >> Regards, >> Murray R. Van Luyn. >> > What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? > > donPerhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at people for downloading things from your website without paying? You offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to treat your moral indignation seriously. I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them.
Reply by ●December 13, 20092009-12-13
On Dec 14, 3:57=A0am, "Murray R. Van Luyn" <va...@email.address> wrote:> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my > 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: > > http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ > > Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you c=an,> as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period.Hmm... I tried, but was unable to decode the ramblings posted. Whatever point you were trying to make, was surely lost. Still, if it is your web site, and entirely your own content, you are free to do with it whatever you wish. -jg
Reply by ●December 13, 20092009-12-13
On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 21:27:25 +0100, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote:>don wrote: >> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on >>> my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>> >>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>> >>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>> >> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >> >> don > >Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide things >entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free >and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get >to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". > >I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ >code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's >allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to >treat your moral indignation seriously. > >I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site >to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low >cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do >it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them.There's probably more to the story that none of us will fully hear about. It's obvious he's angry. But it's hard to judge his responses without knowing exactly what triggered all this. I think Don's question is rightly made, though I won't expect a full answer to it. Jon
Reply by ●December 25, 20092009-12-25
"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net...> don wrote: >> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my >>> 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>> >>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>> >>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you >>> can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>> >> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >> >> don > > Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at > people for downloading things from your website without paying? You offer > them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no indication about > licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is information after > downloading, but that's too late). When you provide downloads on a > website, there are three choices - you can provide things entirely for > free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free and ask for > donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get to moan at > people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". > > I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about people > downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you want to > charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out for free. > Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in any context - > people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and non-commercial > systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ code. It is > certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's allowed by Adam's > choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to treat your moral > indignation seriously. > > I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site > to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low > cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do > it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them.Hi David, So, what's your background, David? What interests in the microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please understand where it's coming from? Regards, Murray R. Van Luyn.
Reply by ●December 25, 20092009-12-25
Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu:> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message > news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >> don wrote: >>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on my >>>> 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>> >>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>> >>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if you >>>> can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>> >>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>> >>> don >> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You offer >> them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no indication about >> licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is information after >> downloading, but that's too late). When you provide downloads on a >> website, there are three choices - you can provide things entirely for >> free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free and ask for >> donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get to moan at >> people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". >> >> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about people >> downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you want to >> charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out for free. >> Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in any context - >> people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and non-commercial >> systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ code. It is >> certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's allowed by Adam's >> choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to treat your moral >> indignation seriously. >> >> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site >> to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low >> cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do >> it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them. > > Hi David, > > So, what's your background, David? What interests in the microcontroller > field do you have? I found your perspective a little unexpected, and I'm > very interested for you to help me please understand where it's coming from? > > Regards,Murray, Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional thoughts. Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous "Elisa" AI demo programs. If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised personal attack. Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his post? OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? -- Cesar Rabak GNU/Linux User 52247. Get counted: http://counter.li.org/
Reply by ●December 26, 20092009-12-26
"Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org...> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>> don wrote: >>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on >>>>> my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>> >>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>> >>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>> >>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>> >>>> don >>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide things >>> entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free >>> and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get >>> to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". >>> >>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ >>> code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's >>> allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to >>> treat your moral indignation seriously. >>> >>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site >>> to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low >>> cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do >>> it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them. >> >> Hi David, >> >> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the microcontroller >> field do you have? I found your perspective a little unexpected, and I'm >> very interested for you to help me please understand where it's coming >> from? >> >> Regards, > Murray, > > Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional > thoughts. > > Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous > "Elisa" AI demo programs. > > If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your reply > sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised personal > attack. > > Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his > post? > > OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? > > -- > Cesar Rabak > GNU/Linux User 52247. > Get counted: http://counter.li.org/You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work together to find a solution? Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or otherwise, I may have found it. David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address the more though-provoking elements of his discussion. Regards, Murray R. Van Luyn.
Reply by ●December 26, 20092009-12-26
Murray R. Van Luyn wrote:> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message > news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org... >> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>>> don wrote: >>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted on >>>>>> my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that period. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>>> >>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>>> >>>>> don >>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide things >>>> entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them for free >>>> and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you don't get >>>> to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright violators". >>>> >>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use /his/ >>>> code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - that's >>>> allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for people to >>>> treat your moral indignation seriously. >>>> >>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the site >>>> to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free or low >>>> cost information and software to people. But this isn't the way to do >>>> it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose them. >>> Hi David, >>> >>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the microcontroller >>> field do you have? I found your perspective a little unexpected, and I'm >>> very interested for you to help me please understand where it's coming >>> from? >>> >>> Regards, >> Murray, >> >> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional >> thoughts. >> >> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous >> "Elisa" AI demo programs. >> >> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your reply >> sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised personal >> attack. >> >> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his >> post? >> >> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? >> >> -- >> Cesar Rabak >> GNU/Linux User 52247. >> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ > > You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work > together to find a solution? >I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA> And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, disguised or otherwise.> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some very > worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I thank > him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or > otherwise, I may have found it. > > David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing my > many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his > perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address the > more though-provoking elements of his discussion. >As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the discussion. I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want. I'm happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual topic - I'm not here for self-promotion. The thread is not about me, or even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people for downloading the software you make freely available.
Reply by ●December 26, 20092009-12-26
"David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message news:cf-dnc_nMfetiavWnZ2dnUVZ7oSdnZ2d@lyse.net...> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >> "Cesar Rabak" <csrabak@bol.com.br> wrote in message >> news:hh3uct$4j1$1@news.eternal-september.org... >>> Murray R. Van Luyn escreveu: >>>> "David Brown" <david.brown@hesbynett.removethisbit.no> wrote in message >>>> news:LcSdnfd4yZ6K07jWnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@lyse.net... >>>>> don wrote: >>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn wrote: >>>>>>> A news bulletin concerning website changes has been freshly posted >>>>>>> on my 8052 microcontroller HomePage at: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://members.iinet.net.au/~vanluynm/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Get around to taking a last look at the site in the next 1-month if >>>>>>> you can, as it will comprehensively vanish at the end of that >>>>>>> period. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Murray R. Van Luyn. >>>>>>> >>>>>> What did China do to piss you off this bad ?? >>>>>> >>>>>> don >>>>> Perhaps more to the point, why are you (the OP - not Don) so angry at >>>>> people for downloading things from your website without paying? You >>>>> offer them for free - payment is clearly optional. You give no >>>>> indication about licenses or conditions on anything (perhaps there is >>>>> information after downloading, but that's too late). When you provide >>>>> downloads on a website, there are three choices - you can provide >>>>> things entirely for free, you can charge for them, or you provide them >>>>> for free and ask for donations. But if you take this third road, you >>>>> don't get to moan at people and call them "malevolent copyright >>>>> violators". >>>>> >>>>> I also think it's a bit unreasonable to complain so violently about >>>>> people downloading "your" stuff for free, when some of the things you >>>>> want to charge for are other peoples' work that /they/ have given out >>>>> for free. Adam Dunkels asks nothing for the use of his uIP software in >>>>> any context - people can freely modify it and use it in commercial and >>>>> non-commercial systems. And yet you want to charge people to use >>>>> /his/ code. It is certainly /legal/ to charge people for his code - >>>>> that's allowed by Adam's choice of licence. But it makes it hard for >>>>> people to treat your moral indignation seriously. >>>>> >>>>> I can well understand you want to make a little bit of money on the >>>>> site to cover your costs, and that you want to be able to offer free >>>>> or low cost information and software to people. But this isn't the >>>>> way to do it - and insulting your visitors is the fastest way to lose >>>>> them. >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> So, what's your background, David? What interests in the >>>> microcontroller field do you have? I found your perspective a little >>>> unexpected, and I'm very interested for you to help me please >>>> understand where it's coming from? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>> Murray, >>> >>> Having read the all thread, I would like you consider some additional >>> thoughts. >>> >>> Your last post seems to be produced by a sort of automaton of the famous >>> "Elisa" AI demo programs. >>> >>> If one gets this impression pass, then another aspect surfaces: your >>> reply sugar coated with a polite writing seems to be a disguised >>> personal attack. >>> >>> Why is David's background or interests on the field matters w.r.t. his >>> post? >>> >>> OTOH, what do you mean with "perspective a little unexpected"? >>> >>> -- >>> Cesar Rabak >>> GNU/Linux User 52247. >>> Get counted: http://counter.li.org/ >> >> You seem to be troubled by my post, Cesar. Please tell me how we can work >> together to find a solution? >> > > I can see what Cesar means about ELIZA! > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA> > > And don't worry, /I/ don't see anything here as a personal attack, > disguised or otherwise. > >> Seriously, no personal attacks intended, Cesar. David has raised some >> very worthwhile points which he is aware have given me cause to think. I >> thank him for his important contribution, regardless of how expected, or >> otherwise, I may have found it. >> >> David appears to write from a position of great authority in addressing >> my many apparent failures, Cesar. I had merely invited him to qualify his >> perspective a little, before I made any decision on whether to address >> the more though-provoking elements of his discussion. >> > > As Cesar says, my background or interests are not relevant to the > discussion. I made my comments for your benefit, and for others in the > group here to agree with, disagree with, or expand if they want. I'm > happy to talk more in this thread if you want to discuss the actual > topic - I'm not here for self-promotion. The thread is not about me, or > even about /you/ - it's about your website, and your post berating people > for downloading the software you make freely available. >Okay, so you haven't the slightest positive contribution of your own to report. I wholly expected that. Good day, sir.
