On 09/01/2017 09:58, rickman wrote: <snip>> > I don't know where you are, but I thought most of Europe drank warm > beer. I know they do in England. A friend was working here and > couldn't stand drinking cold beer. He'd ask the bartender to find a > case in the hallway that wasn't refrigerated. >Not 'warm', but at cellar temperature, around 13C, and only for ales and sometimes ciders. That's in the UK. By and large, the rest of Europe drinks cold lager. SWMBO isn't a Brit, and one of her visiting US cousin was put off by her telling him that our beer was 'warm'. It isn't, he missed out. Cheers -- Clive
Stupid design decisions
Started by ●January 5, 2017
Reply by ●January 9, 20172017-01-09
Reply by ●January 9, 20172017-01-09
On 09/01/17 10:58, rickman wrote:> On 1/9/2017 4:30 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote: >> On 09.1.2017 г. 00:10, rickman wrote: >>> On 1/8/2017 11:11 AM, David Brown wrote: >>>> On 06/01/17 21:22, Grant Edwards wrote: >>>>> On 2017-01-06, Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> IOW, a signal with very poor directionality, in a room with a couple >>>>>> of dozen computers, other electronics, A/C, and whatnot contributing >>>>>> tons of background noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have rarely in my life been so frustrated, as I have been trying >>>>>> to locate that dang* chirp. >>>>> >>>>> Ah, you wanted to know _where_ the problem was. That's what the smoke >>>>> and flames are for... >>>>> >>>> >>>> If you have a good infrared camera around (not /that/ unlikely, in this >>>> newsgroup) then it can be useful to spot problems when they are >>>> beeping, >>>> but not yet smoking. >>> >>> If you are just trying to find a hot spot, a camera is a bit of >>> overkill. A handheld remote temp sensor is great. I tried it last >>> night and found my porch was 4°F warmer than the yard which was 0°F. The >>> sky was either around -56°F or it just said "Lo". Maybe they should >>> have used a few more letters so they could say "F****** Cold". >>> >> >> I use the same technique. And it is "f****** cold" here, too; -11 C >> last night and was - and is expected to - be worse over the next >> few days. >> Those IR thermometers are cheap nowadays, mine cost me about $300 >> back in the day (nearly 20 years ago....), I got it to control the >> PCB baking temp when I started using BGA-s. Still in use for that, >> and for finding cold spots on windows, doors and walls (to detect >> warmth leaks), to measure tea temp (55 C is the highest tolerable >> to start drinking, how many people knew that one :), beer temp >> during the summer (target being around 5C is probably known by >> most people...) etc etc. > > I don't know where you are, but I thought most of Europe drank warm > beer. I know they do in England. A friend was working here and > couldn't stand drinking cold beer. He'd ask the bartender to find a > case in the hallway that wasn't refrigerated. >That will depend on the type of beer, as well who is drinking it. For more "solid" beers, it is common to have them a little warmer than fridge temperature (ideally right from the barrel - cooler than room temperature, but not cold). Basically, your sense of taste does not work well on things that are fridge temperature. So when you are drinking lager for refreshment, cold is good - but when you are drinking good stuff for the taste, it needs to be warmer to appreciate it. See section 10 in the letter here: <http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/revocation.asp>
Reply by ●January 10, 20172017-01-10
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 17:11:44 +0100, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:>On 06/01/17 21:22, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2017-01-06, Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> IOW, a signal with very poor directionality, in a room with a couple >>> of dozen computers, other electronics, A/C, and whatnot contributing >>> tons of background noise. >>> >>> I have rarely in my life been so frustrated, as I have been trying >>> to locate that dang* chirp. >> >> Ah, you wanted to know _where_ the problem was. That's what the smoke >> and flames are for... >> > >If you have a good infrared camera around (not /that/ unlikely, in this >newsgroup) then it can be useful to spot problems when they are beeping, >but not yet smoking.In this case it would not have helped. The failed fan bearing and overheat (and the darn buzzer) was in a unit installed inside the chassis of a larger device. The outer device had no cooling issues, and so would have shown no external hotspots. The inner device would not have been producing any more heat than normal, so the thermal load it passed to the outer device would have been unchanged (the route the heat took out of the inner device would have changed).
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 10:13:50 PM UTC-5, robert...@yahoo.com wrote:> The following is more a vent than anything really constructive, but... > > So for the last four days (yes, I got called in New Years day > afternoon), something has been beeping in the computer room. >You all read his story. Mine is on the consumer side. It's short, but a little expensive (cost me about $100 bucks). So this is my story regarding locating a beeping source. 8^) So a few years ago I replaced all the smoke detectors in the house. they were WELL past their useful life (which the manufacturer says is ten years). Then at Halloween, I did my annual battery replacement. I also replaced the battery in a separate CO detector in the basement. All is fine and dandy, that is until a few weeks ago. We started hearing an intermittent chirp. Clearly the battery low signal. But I just replaced those with fresh ones! Oh well, can't always be sure even a new battery is fully charged. Get a new battery and replace it in the smoke detector. Seems okay, but not long after... chirp! Even standing right under the detector I cannot tell the direction. But maybe it was the CO detector. Replace its battery again. Seems okay, but not long after... chirp! Okay, I test by removing the CO detector (it is a plugin unit) to the upstairs, but still here the chirp downstairs. Off to the hardware store. I am a little pissed because the Smoke detector should last 10 years and this was 3 years old. But they are cheap (<$20). Put the CO detector back in its place near the furnace. Install the new smoke detector. Before I finish, ... chirp. Remove battery from old smoke detector. ... chirp. Dang! Maybe it was the CO detector. put old smoke detector back, return new smoke detector to the hardware store and get a combo detector Smoke AND CO. (now we are into real money Install this and remove both old smoke detector and CO detector. Seems okay, but not long after... chirp! Double Dang!!! Logically I'm stumped. I cannot tel the location of the chirp EXCEPT it is clearly down the basement. The only other thing I can think of that is down there is the furnace. Call the service company and schedule a visit. I describe the problem, and he replies, " didn't they tell you on the phone, there are no speakers or beepers in the furnace? Sorry but this is costing you the $60 anyway." At this point, I'm like, "I don't care, I need help." So together we investigate, and After a few chirps, we manage to locate the culprit. Under a dust tarp, on a shelf, is one of the old smoke detectors that I removed over three years ago!!! So two rants: BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery signal to something more easily located!!! Small one: Batteries obviously last more than one year! (but I am still replacing them yearly, better safe than cheap.) End of story. ed
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On 1/30/2017 1:28 PM, Ed Prochak wrote:> So together we investigate, and After a few chirps, > we manage to locate the culprit. Under a dust tarp, > on a shelf, is one of the old smoke detectors that > I removed over three years ago!!!Yeah, I spent some time the other day chasing down what was obviously an "alarm clock". Apparently, only rings for a minute or two, then self-resets. So, if you're not in the garage (which is where it was, sitting in a pile of items to be recycled) when it goes off, you'd never know! I figure I've just saved the folks at the recycling plant a hassle or two!> So two rants: > > BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery > signal to something more easily located!!!People KNOW where their smoke detectors are located. The goal of the alarm in the detector is to be as loud and annoying as possible.> Small one: Batteries obviously last more than one year!Of course! You can buy detectors with non-replaceable batteries (the entire detector is discarded after 10 years)> (but I am still replacing them yearly, better safe than cheap.)Yup. It also gives you a reminder to test the thing and remind yourself what it sounds like when it sounds off (ours are combination units so the alarms for smoke and Co are different). As well as testing the interconnect -- to make sure ALL sound when *any* sounds!> End of story.A $60 leson you will undoubtedly not need to repeat! :>
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:> On 1/30/2017 1:28 PM, Ed Prochak wrote: > >> BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery >> signal to something more easily located!!! > > People KNOW where their smoke detectors are located.The problem isn't that I don't know where the smoke detectors are. The problem is I don't know which of the half-dozen of them is upset. This could be solved easily with an LED... -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! I think my career at is ruined! gmail.com
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On 1/30/2017 1:55 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> On 1/30/2017 1:28 PM, Ed Prochak wrote: >> >>> BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery >>> signal to something more easily located!!! >> >> People KNOW where their smoke detectors are located. > > The problem isn't that I don't know where the smoke detectors are. > The problem is I don't know which of the half-dozen of them is upset. > > This could be solved easily with an LED...One of the LEDs on each of our detectors "chirps" coincident with the battery test. I think the actual circuitry "hibernates" most of the time and only powers up, runs the test (for smoke/CO/battery) then powers down, again. So, stand under the detector and listen for chirp -- verify it coincides with LED flash... or, move on to next detector! [I think there is also a way to determine which detector is signalling the alarm (when one is detected) so you don't have to unplug each of them to locate the offender]
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:> On 1/30/2017 1:55 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: >> On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>> On 1/30/2017 1:28 PM, Ed Prochak wrote: >>> >>>> BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery >>>> signal to something more easily located!!! >>> >>> People KNOW where their smoke detectors are located. >> >> The problem isn't that I don't know where the smoke detectors are. >> The problem is I don't know which of the half-dozen of them is upset. >> >> This could be solved easily with an LED... > > One of the LEDs on each of our detectors "chirps" coincident with > the battery test. I think the actual circuitry "hibernates" most of > the time and only powers up, runs the test (for smoke/CO/battery) > then powers down, again. > > So, stand under the detector and listen for chirp -- verify it > coincides with LED flash... or, move on to next detector!If they only chirp once every 15-20 minutes, that can be frustrating. And they always _start_ the chirping in the middle of the night.... -- Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! But they went to MARS at around 1953!! gmail.com
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
Am 30.01.2017 um 21:55 schrieb Grant Edwards:> The problem is I don't know which of the half-dozen of them is upset.That stops being a problem once you realize that it doesn't really matter which of them is the first to go. As soon as the first of them complains, you replace _all_ their batteries, preferably with a batch of same-model batteries, from the same shop, with equal date stamps. After the first round of this, all the batteries are the same type and age, so when the first one goes, all the others will likely go soon enough after that they best be replaced right away, too. Or to put it into terms more applicable to c.a.e.: globally forced synchronization avoids the problems of asynchronous, spatially distributed event sources.
Reply by ●January 30, 20172017-01-30
On 1/30/2017 2:20 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:> On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> On 1/30/2017 1:55 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: >>> On 2017-01-30, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>>> On 1/30/2017 1:28 PM, Ed Prochak wrote: >>>> >>>>> BIG ONE: detector companies, PLEASE change the low battery >>>>> signal to something more easily located!!! >>>> >>>> People KNOW where their smoke detectors are located. >>> >>> The problem isn't that I don't know where the smoke detectors are. >>> The problem is I don't know which of the half-dozen of them is upset. >>> >>> This could be solved easily with an LED... >> >> One of the LEDs on each of our detectors "chirps" coincident with >> the battery test. I think the actual circuitry "hibernates" most of >> the time and only powers up, runs the test (for smoke/CO/battery) >> then powers down, again. >> >> So, stand under the detector and listen for chirp -- verify it >> coincides with LED flash... or, move on to next detector! > > If they only chirp once every 15-20 minutes, that can be frustrating.Ours run a "cycle" every minute or so. What's annoying is that they signal battery failure even though they are AC/DC units (yeah, I need to know when the battery is in need of replacement; but it doesn't need to be so INSISTENT given that primary power is still available!)> And they always _start_ the chirping in the middle of the night....Of course! Or, when the weather is lousy (we don't "stock" spare batteries). Hence the practice of replacing all batteries on New Year's Eve... (or, pick some other "memorable day")
