An Ametuer Who needs Advice

Devyn wrote:

>1) Light Guided Rover - 8051 based rover that goes straight or takes
>left/right turn based on light stimulus (such as a flashlight on the
>left/right sensor)

This sounds like fun, but I'm too practical for this kind of thing.

>2) Keypad Interfaced PIC Clock - A simple app. Takes in time set from
>user, displays real time on 7 segment LED disp. I'm working to include
>an alarm and somehow try and bring in the watchdog timer to good use.

I like clocks, so this seems a better pick to me.

As a student, you might not fully appreciate this but a clock idea I've
had is a "meeting clock."  A meeting's attendees enter their hourly
rate and the clock accumulates the cost of the meeting as time elapses.

>I felt that these were too amateur and needed a linux based project.
>Am i right in thinking so?

I don't think so.  Embedded programming is as much about hardware as
it is software, and you'll learn a bunch building these.  Hint: As
you're designing and building these, consider what you might need to
do differently if you were going to manufacture 10,000 of them rather
than just one!

-- 
========================================================================
          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
                                   |   two, one and one make one."
          mkesti@gv.net            |          - The Who, Bargain

> The eight bit processors are far too small for Linux.
> What you need:
>  - understanding of the electronics of an embedded system,
>  - understanding of the machine code of the target processor,
>  - plenty of patience, and
>  - a real project.
> 
> Tauno Voipio
> tauno voipio @ iki fi

 >Maybe your next project can be something like a motor
 >control (garage door opener?) that you can operate over the
Internet.
 >
 >Mike

 

  Hi Everyone!

 Thank you for the replies. Most of my profs. have been telling me to
avoid linux because its uneccessary for the kind of projects I do.
Well, I couldnt agree more. But the thing is, as with my other
projects, I realise that there's no better way to learn about a device
than to actually work on it. Books and the net cant take you as far as
projects will. My other projects may seem pointless, but the fact is
that they helped me know the devices inside out, program optimizing
(esp. the rover; its ALP was marvelous), cross compilers and the like.

So, here's what I'll do :-

Stick to C and cross compilers, tweaking the assembly they generate.
Work on a better project. In fact, I was already on it. I got this
idea from a micro-controller site. These guys controlled a stepper
motor over the net. I thought I could use a PIC (for starters; ARMs
are something i'm just beginnig to understand. I'm more confident with
PIC) as a Data Aquisition sys. for a comp. online and implement an
actuator elswhere. All controlled over the net. It'll take some time
before I can come with application that I can really put on paper, but
anyhow, I've made start.

Regards,
Devyn

In article <brng9t$v9r@library1.airnews.net>, Jim Stewart
<jstewart@jkmicro.com> writes
>Devyn wrote:
>
>> Greetings Everyone!
>> 
>>  I'm an Undergrad student studyin Electronics Engg. As part of my
>> course I've sudies 8051 and PIC microcontrollers. I find that I'm
>> greatly interested in Embedded Systems design. However, the flood of
>> info. on the net has me confused. Where should I begin? I've done (or
>> doing) the following :-
>> 
>> 1) Studied Assembly Language Programming of 8051/PIC micros
>> 2) Learning Linux with Redhat
>> 3) Got hold of a list of Embedded Linux books that I'm gonna buy this
>> weekend
>> 
>>  Anything i can do more? What are the companies working on Embedded
>> Sys? Is there any Ametuer resource for guys like me? (I'm also
>> searchin Google right now, not happy with the results).
>> 
>> Grateful if any of you can take time of to post a reply.
>
>Time to start building stuff.  Snag yourself a
>cheap scope and logic analyzer off of ebay and
>design something. 

Don't bother with the logic Analyser. Scope yes but buy a cheap dev
board.  They do you own but you won't need an LA to start with (if at
all)

> Start with some simple blinkenlights
>and go from there.  Nothing impresses me more in an
>entry-level job candidate than them being able to
>pull out a piece of working hardware software
>that they built themselves.

yes. but start with a cheap dev kit and look at the circuit diagram and
modify it. 

small steps ....

designing you own and learning a logic analyser is a large step.

 
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

In article <e2769bfd.0312170233.7d3bb8be@posting.google.com>, Devyn
<devyntt@yahoo.com> writes
>> Time to start building stuff.  
>
> Hi!
>         Yeah. I realized that sometime ago. I've built 2 small
>applications :-
>
>1) Light Guided Rover - 8051 based rover that goes straight or takes
>left/right turn based on light stimulus (such as a flashlight on the
>left/right sensor)
>
>2) Keypad Interfaced PIC Clock - A simple app. Takes in time set from
>user, displays real time on 7 segment LED disp. I'm working to include
>an alarm and somehow try and bring in the watchdog timer to good use.
>
> I felt that these were too amateur and needed a linux based project.
>Am i right in thinking so?

No... yes... it depends. 

The vast majority of embedded systems do not use an OS mush less
something like Linux with is NOT an RTOS.  I would not bother with Linux
unless you are looking at 32 bit systems and that is not the place to
start if you want to do the HW as well.

BTW about 1 in 3 embedded systems in the world is an 8051, About 80% are
8 bit systems in general.  It depends where you want to go.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

devyntt@yahoo.com (Devyn) wrote in message news:<e2769bfd.0312170233.7d3bb8be@posting.google.com>...
> > Time to start building stuff.  
> 
>  Hi!
>          Yeah. I realized that sometime ago. I've built 2 small
> applications :-
> 
> 1) Light Guided Rover - 8051 based rover that goes straight or takes
> left/right turn based on light stimulus (such as a flashlight on the
> left/right sensor)
> 
> 2) Keypad Interfaced PIC Clock - A simple app. Takes in time set from
> user, displays real time on 7 segment LED disp. I'm working to include
> an alarm and somehow try and bring in the watchdog timer to good use.
> 
>  I felt that these were too amateur and needed a linux based project.
> Am i right in thinking so?
> 
> Regards,
> Devyn

If you want something a hellofalot more interesting then this is a
terrific resource:-

http://www.FreeRTOS.org

(you might have to read up little on containers and their iterators
e.g. Stroustrup's C++).

Like the other posters say, patient slow progress is best!

Robin

Devyn wrote:
> It'll take some time
> before I can come with application that I can really put on paper, but
> anyhow, I've made start.
>
> Regards,
> Devyn

Great.  One good resource is Circuit Cellar magazine and their website
http://www.circuitcellar.com/

Lots of projects to give you ideas and even the ads are worth looking at.

Have fun!

-- 
Ron Sharp.

On 2003-12-18, Michael R. Kesti <mkesti@gv.net> wrote:

> As a student, you might not fully appreciate this but a clock
> idea I've had is a "meeting clock." A meeting's attendees
> enter their hourly rate and the clock accumulates the cost of
> the meeting as time elapses.

I love it!  

It also needs a button to push for every power-point slide
displayed.  The button would add some amount (e.g. $100) to the
total.

-- 
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Ask me the DIFFERENCE
                                  at               between PHIL SILVERS and
                               visi.com            ALEXANDER HAIG!!

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:20:44 -0800, Devyn wrote:

> Greetings Everyone!
> 
>  I'm an Undergrad student studyin Electronics Engg. As part of my
> course I've sudies 8051 and PIC microcontrollers. I find that I'm
> greatly interested in Embedded Systems design. However, the flood of
> info. on the net has me confused. Where should I begin? I've done (or
> doing) the following :-
> 
> 1) Studied Assembly Language Programming of 8051/PIC micros
> 2) Learning Linux with Redhat
> 3) Got hold of a list of Embedded Linux books that I'm gonna buy this
> weekend
> 
>  Anything i can do more? What are the companies working on Embedded
> Sys? Is there any Ametuer resource for guys like me? (I'm also
> searchin Google right now, not happy with the results).
> 
> Grateful if any of you can take time of to post a reply.
> 
> Regards,
> Devyn

	Linux won't help a bit with embedded micros, move on to the three or four
main languages used, Basic, Assembler and Forth.  Secondly I suggest that
you discover your field of interest for that should determine both the
micro and tools used.  Only then should you delve into detail.

In article <pan.2003.12.18.23.34.04.495514@albert.amresearch.com>,
Albert Lee Mitchell <albmit@albert.amresearch.com> writes
>       Linux won't help a bit with embedded micros, move on to the three or 
>four
>main languages used, 

C in 90%

>Basic,
only by amateurs at home

> Assembler 
Definitely 

>and Forth. 
Only by a few on some micros. 


> Secondly I suggest that
>you discover your field of interest for that should determine both the
>micro and tools used.  Only then should you delve into detail.

agreed

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Grant Edwards wrote:

>On 2003-12-18, Michael R. Kesti <mkesti@gv.net> wrote:
>
>> As a student, you might not fully appreciate this but a clock
>> idea I've had is a "meeting clock." A meeting's attendees
>> enter their hourly rate and the clock accumulates the cost of
>> the meeting as time elapses.
>
>I love it!

I have this feeling that I have given away one of my best ever product
ideas.  I'll expect royalties from anybody who profits from it.  ;-)

>It also needs a button to push for every power-point slide
>displayed.  The button would add some amount (e.g. $100) to the
>total.

Hmmm...  It seems to me that the cost of the slides is in producing them
and is incurred regardless of whether they are shown in a meeting, so I
wouldn't add their cost to a clock that measures the cost of a meeting.
I mention this primarily to provide an example of how easy it is to
generate design errors without complete problem analysis.

-- 
========================================================================
          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
                                   |   two, one and one make one."
          mkesti@gv.net            |          - The Who, Bargain