An Ametuer Who needs Advice

Michael R. Kesti <mkesti@gv.net> wrote:

[...]

> >It also needs a button to push for every power-point slide
> >displayed.  The button would add some amount (e.g. $100) to the
> >total.

> Hmmm...  It seems to me that the cost of the slides is in producing them
> and is incurred regardless of whether they are shown in a meeting, so I
> wouldn't add their cost to a clock that measures the cost of a meeting.

For normal slides, that would be correct --- and the cost would be
amortized over many meetings, as the slides are recycled, so it would
be unjust to count it as an inherent cost of the individual meeting.

But the grandparent spefically talked of PP slides.  Those extra $100
are costs, but they're too indirect to be obvious.  They're actually
compensation for damages done to the audience during the meeting.  So
they should be proportional to the number of attendees, too.  For
better effect, add punitive damages per different colour and per
different font used, and double the resulting fee for every completely
superfluous animated effect.

-- 
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote:
>But the grandparent spefically talked of PP slides.  Those extra $100
>are costs, but they're too indirect to be obvious.  They're actually
>compensation for damages done to the audience during the meeting.  So
>they should be proportional to the number of attendees, too.  For
>better effect, add punitive damages per different colour and per
>different font used, and double the resulting fee for every completely
>superfluous animated effect.

How about a $50 penalty for using the word 'Leverage'?
Unless the meeting is about moving things about using large bits of
metal of course.

Andy

"Andy Sinclair" <me@privacy.net> wrote
> How about a $50 penalty for using the word 'Leverage'?
> Unless the meeting is about moving things about using large bits of
> metal of course.

So, you're saying that after the meeting, everybody should stick around?

My first reaction to the _time is money meeting reminder machine_ was that
meetings are where all the important work gets done. I know I'm gonna get
shot for saying that. Really, I would have kicked myself in the arse if I
weren't sitting in a chair.

Then again.... nevermind. Here is a holiday poem for the overly embedded
mind.

If the ocean were vodka
And I was a duck
I'd swim to the bottom
And drink my way up

But the ocean's not vodka
And I'm not a duck
So pass me the bottle
And shut the hell up!

Happy holidays, everyone. Enjoy your families and don't bother building
temperature sensors into the cocoa cups.

Mike

Michael R. Kesti wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:

> I have this feeling that I have given away one of my best ever product
> ideas.  I'll expect royalties from anybody who profits from it.  ;-)

I imagine they'll want to have a meeting first to discuse it.  D'oh!

>> It also needs a button to push for every power-point slide
>> displayed.  The button would add some amount (e.g. $100) to the
>> total.
>
> Hmmm...  It seems to me that the cost of the slides is in producing
> them and is incurred regardless of whether they are shown in a
> meeting, so I wouldn't add their cost to a clock that measures the
> cost of a meeting. I mention this primarily to provide an example of
> how easy it is to generate design errors without complete problem
> analysis.

If they are shown, every slide should reduce a bar displaying the average
effective IQ in the room.  Once it drops below a safety set-point, the
fire alarms should ring to evacuate -- hopefully everyone will still
remember what the warning is for.

-- 
Ron Sharp.
FLASH! Intelligence of mankind decreasing. Details at ... uh, when the
little hand is on the ....

"Android Cat" <androidcat99@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZkHEb.5741$vT2.34104@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Michael R. Kesti wrote:
> > Grant Edwards wrote:
>
> > I have this feeling that I have given away one of my best ever product
> > ideas.  I'll expect royalties from anybody who profits from it.  ;-)
>
> I imagine they'll want to have a meeting first to discuse it.  D'oh!
>
> >> It also needs a button to push for every power-point slide
> >> displayed.  The button would add some amount (e.g. $100) to the
> >> total.
> >
> > Hmmm...  It seems to me that the cost of the slides is in producing
> > them and is incurred regardless of whether they are shown in a
> > meeting, so I wouldn't add their cost to a clock that measures the
> > cost of a meeting. I mention this primarily to provide an example of
> > how easy it is to generate design errors without complete problem
> > analysis.
>
> If they are shown, every slide should reduce a bar displaying the average
> effective IQ in the room.  Once it drops below a safety set-point, the
> fire alarms should ring to evacuate -- hopefully everyone will still
> remember what the warning is for.


There seems to be a lot of anger in this group regarding meetings.

oN 19-Dec-03, Mike Turco said:

> There seems to be a lot of anger in this group regarding meetings.

Many years ago, when I first began consulting, a client took me aside,
and pointed out that one of the responsibilities of a consultant is to
bring some discipline to meetings. Remember that outside help is often
hired because the inside crew is bogged down. But also keep in mind the
general principles laid out in Gerald Weinberg's "Secrets of
Consulting" -- they're as valid today, as when first published.

If you take some control over meetings, you may find them less hateful,
and far more productive. And your client may even thank you for it.

-- 
Bill
Posted with XanaNews Version 1.15.8.4

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:47:16 +0000, Chris Hills wrote:

> In article <pan.2003.12.18.23.34.04.495514@albert.amresearch.com>,
> Albert Lee Mitchell <albmit@albert.amresearch.com> writes
>>       Linux won't help a bit with embedded micros, move on to the three or 
>>four
>>main languages used, 
> 
> C in 90%

	Do you have any data to support this guestimate?

>>Basic,
> only by amateurs at home

	Correct me if I'm wrong but the original post this thread responds to is
by a self-professed amateur.  Besides, there are more than a few
commercial products being used, like the Parallax family, in Basic. 
Again, I'd have to ask for some data to support this guestimate.
 
>> Assembler 
> Definitely 
> 
>>and Forth. 
> Only by a few on some micros. 

	On most micros however there is no correlation between the number of developers using Forth 
and the number of embedded control projects in use.
 
> 
>> Secondly I suggest that
>>you discover your field of interest for that should determine both the
>>micro and tools used.  Only then should you delve into detail.
> 
> agreed
> 
> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
> \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
> /\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
> \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

-- 
-- Regards, Albert
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AM Research, Inc.    			  The Embedded Systems Experts
http://www.amresearch.com          			  916.780.7623
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <pan.2003.12.24.23.06.50.307995@albert.amresearch.com>,
Albert Lee Mitchell <albmit@albert.amresearch.com> writes
>> 
>> C in 90%
>
>       Do you have any data to support this guestimate?

Yes. Several studies dating from 1997. I could dig out the results but
since Forth and basic don't appear in some of them I doubt you would
accept them. 

>>>Basic,
>> only by amateurs at home
>
>       Correct me if I'm wrong but the original post this thread responds to is
>by a self-professed amateur. 

So? That is no reason to use it. There are plenty of C tools and support
available from the free to the very expensive.  The point is that there
is a LOT of support for C for all levels. There is no need to tie one
self down to a less appropreate language just because some ametures use
it.. 

> Besides, there are more than a few
>commercial products being used, like the Parallax family, in Basic. 
>Again, I'd have to ask for some data to support this guestimate.



>>>and Forth. 
>> Only by a few on some micros. 
>
>       On most micros however there is no correlation between the number of 
>developers using Forth 
>and the number of embedded control projects in use.

This is true. The amount of forth in use probably dwindles even more if
you look ate the number of projects or indeed the number of installed
devices.

I have nothing against forth but an ammeter will get fat more help and
support (and tools) on a far wider variety of micros and application
types that he could from forth.

>>> Secondly I suggest that
>>>you discover your field of interest for that should determine both the
>>>micro and tools used.  Only then should you delve into detail.

This is probably more relevant.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England    /\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/ chris@phaedsys.org       www.phaedsys.org \/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

Seasons' Greetings Everyone!!


  Thank You everyone for all the fantastic replies. Here's what I've
done in the past few days :-

1) Got hold of the Hitech PIClite C cross compiler
2) Am now writing progs. only in C (as compared to Assembly)
3) Our college got hold of a few 16F84 and 877 trainre kits.
Interfaced stepper motors and tried of several timer and port
experiments

I want know if what i'm doing is right- 

1) Write the code in C
2) View the assembly version
3) Cut out extra lines and optimize Assembly Code
4) Generate Hex code and download it into the PIC

 The problem's that the compiler's a demo version. Codes that are > 2k
arent't assembled. Is there a freeware compiler ( I know I sound like
a cheapskate; sorry I'm eternally broke)

Regards,
Devyn

"Devyn" <devyntt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e2769bfd.0312270829.224b9cfb@posting.google.com...
> Seasons' Greetings Everyone!!
>
>
>   Thank You everyone for all the fantastic replies. Here's what I've
> done in the past few days :-
>
> 1) Got hold of the Hitech PIClite C cross compiler
> 2) Am now writing progs. only in C (as compared to Assembly)
> 3) Our college got hold of a few 16F84 and 877 trainre kits.
> Interfaced stepper motors and tried of several timer and port
> experiments
>
> I want know if what i'm doing is right-
>
> 1) Write the code in C
> 2) View the assembly version
> 3) Cut out extra lines and optimize Assembly Code
> 4) Generate Hex code and download it into the PIC
>
>  The problem's that the compiler's a demo version. Codes that are > 2k
> arent't assembled. Is there a freeware compiler ( I know I sound like
> a cheapskate; sorry I'm eternally broke)

If this is for a school project, you have an easy out.

Ask your professor to call the Hitachi rep and see if they can supply the full
compiler/toolset to the school on a free educational license, or if they can
make you a deal on a student license.

Vendors are usually very happy to support schools in this way, since it gives
them a ready supply of engineers who might be more likely to design their parts
into their projects after graduation.